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Doing well girls..
Im with the logic of what is being said.
Reasonable ,and not a "wild theory" in sight JC...:)

Night.

Tracing the other boarders back ...

George Bradshaw in 1891 is a shoemaker in Aldershot boarding wtih Dennis Cobbett, a comedian. (Interesting, the neighbour in 1901 is an actor). There are other shoemakers in the household and next door.

Henry Little in 1851 is a shoemaker in Portsea lodging with Frederick Godwin, a market garden labourer. They are surrounded by military types. One is a Sergeant RM (Royal Marines) and Master Shoemaker, just for an interesting military/footwear connection. ;)


I've been doing my wild theories in private in my own head on this one, FBG!

Given that likely death, and the fact that the 1901 census info may have depended on the head of household's knowledge (all the other lodgers were older), I'd be inclined to accept the age in 1911 as more likely to be accurate, i.e. dob c1860.

And of course I have been investigating possible name-shifting ...

I think I've lost the plot a bit!

Henry the engineer from 1851 to 1881 was born circa 1844.

I was sort of working on the theory that he might have changed his trade to bootmaker.

But if Henry the bootmaker was born circa 1860 he can't be the same one?

The Henry Johns who died in Aldershot might be Dud's Henry but the Henry who was an engineer might be this one:

Deaths Jun 1908 (>99%)
JOHNS Henry 64 Lambeth 1d 176

Julie

That's what I'm thinking now, that Henry the engineer probably is not Henry the bootmaker.

That 1908 death does look like another indication of separate existence. ;)

There are so many reasons why we might not find him in 1871 or 1881, the most common being that he was recorded under a stepfather's name, or that Johns was a stepfather's name itself ...


On the journeyman business -- is that necessarily someone still learning the trade, or is it just someone who isn't a "master", but whatever standards applied? Employees of a "master bootmaker", not exercising the trade on their own account, might have been referred to as journeymen, even if they'd been doing it for 30 years?

Births in Farnham post 1911 ...

Births Jun 1913 >> yours
Johns Doris M Mason Farnham 2a 311

Births Dec 1913
Johns Cuthbert R Eborall Farnham 2a 301
(marriage 1904 Kensington?)

Births Dec 1914
Johns Donald A W Wilson Farnham 2a 282
(various possible marriages)

Births Mar 1917
Johns Norah A Stacey Farnham 2a 232
(marriage in Petersfield 1915)


Just wondering whether Henry might have partnered with someone else when he and Ellen Mason Weedon split.


Someone here at GR does have this person in their tree:

Births Mar 1856
JOHNS Henry Charles Strand 1b 423

(the tree shows place of birth as St Clement Danes)

In 1891, he is with wife Harriet in St Marylebone and is a Laundry Engineers Fitter. They married in 1884 in Strand. In 1891 (I meant 1901, I think!) he is a boarder, same occupation, in Acton, Middlesex. There's him ruled out.

Hi All.
Thanks so very much for taking such an interest in my problem..
I also think that the age given on the 1901 census was a bit of a guess. It would appear the the ages of the other workers was also rounded up..
A point of interest is that the John Sharp he was working for in 1901 was Ellens stepfather and Matilda Sharp was Ellens mother.

I had missed the Henry Johns death reg in Aldershot in 1936. (2c311) I think this could be a good possibility.Thanks again everyone for all your valued help.

Dud.

PS I always understood that if a person was a journeyman then he was qualified.

Me too Dud.
And that a journeyman could employ one person only,but a Master many?
Where I read that is anyones guess now,but I must have, to have it in my head.

With his dob looking like c1861, I wondered about this one in 1891:

Name: Henry Johns
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Lodger
Where born: N

Civil parish: St Michael
Town: Southampton
County/Island: Hampshire
Registration district: Southampton

He is in a list of peddlars and hawkers (initially entered as "Travellers") , all place of birth unknown, with the address being a common lodging house. All shown as single, which might or might not be, I'd say.

Hi Janey.

I did come across this chap but as he was listed with peddlars and hawkers I didnt really give it much attention..The only thing that did strike me is that Southampton is not a too greater distance from Aldershot.
Worth bearing in mind.
I think I will send off for the death cert' of the Henry Johns that died in Aldershot 1936 It could well be him., although I cant see how it will advance my search for his past.
Regards Dud.

The only thing that might help on the death cert is if a child or spouse/partner registered the death, so it's worth having a look!

Well I'm a bit useless on the 'journeyman' thing as ever. Someone put me right on a thread a little while ago but I can't find it now.

Nevermind, at least we've established we are still looking for a bootmaker.

Thought I'd struck gold with this next one but alas no.

Searched on FMP for Henry Johns Occupation Boot* plus variants on first name and only one result came up:

!891 census
Household JOHNS, Harry 1862 29 M Plymouth Devonshire

Found him on Ancestry. He was born Devonport, image shows him as servant in a hotel, occupation 'boots'. I guess that means he cleaned the boots???

There is a boot manafacturer a few doors away but that's probably just clutching at straws!

Julie