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hi ann,
yes this is the birth of john mcneal /mcneill ,mcneil /mcniel .
lot's of spelling's on the census record's.
thank's ann

I may have misunderstood which JOhn was being talked about on page 1 as having been born in West Derby (a long way from Bacup)

this would be father John's birth reg

Births Mar 1856 (>99%)
MCNEAL John Haslingden 8e 99

i have found them under mcneil at cross st burnley lancashire.
i cannot read the names of the children ,
a son age 13,
a son age 5 ,
a son age 8 month's,
all the other's i can read,would be grateful for someone to see if they can read the 3 names,
thank's martyn.

worked it out now thank's,martin age 13,
morris age5,
joseph age 8 month's

please could someone check the 1871 census,
i have got the family 1861,under thomas mcneal born 1821,born scotland,address tony bridge bacup,haslingden newchurch lancashire,
i also have them in 1881/91/(under john mcneill).
01/11 found by ninja lady ,

hi eringobragh,
thank's for your info,
i should have looked for different spelling of the surname,
on the 1901 census ninja got for me it is spelt mcniell instead of mcneill,
thank you martyn

Martyn...
Thomas married Hannah Fitton at St Thomas' Werneth (Oldham)...she was not married before...

Martyn....

Possible Death for John "McNeal"...

Deaths Jun 1928 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

McNeal John 72 Oldham 8d 964

i see hannah mcneill nee fitton married again in 1934 to john phoenix

Possible marriage for Thomas McNeill

Marriages Jun 1917
Fitton Hannah McNeill Oldham 8d 992
McNeill Thomas Fitton Oldham 8d 992

Can't see any McNeill/Fitton births so they either didn't have children or perhaps Hannah Fitton was a widow and therefore the mmn would be different.

thank's ninja,
i have been looking at agnes's children for birth's & death's,
as lancashire bmd has not got oldham death's transcribed yet,i keep moving to free bmd,

Well, it looks like John Samuel McNeill from the 1901 census died in 1925

Deaths Mar 1925
McNeill John S 43 Oldham 8d 1198


This looks like him in 1911

MCNEILL, John Samuel Husband Married M 29 1882 Bali Breaker In Cotton Mill Lanc Lees
MCNEILL, Rose Wife Married F 33 1878 Notts Worksop
MCNEILL, Hector Son M 5 1906 Lanc Lees
MCNEILL, Alec Son M 3 1908 Lanc Lees
MCNEILL, Harry Son M 0 (10 MONTHS) 1911 Lanc Lees

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
26177 Reference:
RG14PN26177 RG78PN1512 RD494 SD1 ED3 SN75

Registration District:
Saddleworth Sub District:
Springhead Enumeration District:
3 Parish:
Springhead

Address:
3 Houghtons Fold Austerlands Near Oldham

Married 6 years, three children born alive, 3 still alive in 1911

Marriages Jun 1905
****DREW Rose Ashton 8d 861
GARSIDE Sarah Ashton 8d 861
Mace James Ashton 8d 861
****McNEILL John Samuel Ashton 8d 861


Looks like one more child born after 1911

Births Dec 1913
McNEILL Marion Drew Saddleworth 9a 364

just checked hey birth's,8 born,3 death's,
living children,
elizabeth-1914.
thomas 1915.
jane 1920.
mary 1923.
the last nellie born1928, mmn spelt mcneal ? not sure about this one .

hi ninja,
sorry for the delay,i keep losing the internet or it keeps running very slow.
yes the marriage is agnes also the birth,
she had i think 2 children,
thank's for the info,
martyn.

i have no knowledge of the 2 mcneill boy's,so i have quite a bit to do with this family yet

Possible marriage for one of the Agnes'

Marriages Sep 1913
Hey Richard McNeill Oldham 8d 1503
McNeill Agnes Hey Oldham 8d 1503


Looking at the children born to this marriage, the first child is called Elizabeth (after Agnes' mother perhaps?) and then there's Thomas, Jane, Joseph, Mary, Violet and Ethel.

Possible death of Richard Hey

Deaths Dec 1930
Hey Richard 48 Oldham 8d 866

Possible re-marriage for Agnes

Marriages Sep 1931
Goodier William Hey Oldham 8d 2293
Hey Agnes Goodier Oldham 8d 2293

and possible death for Agnes McNeill/Hey/Goodier

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
Name: Agnes Goodier
Birth Date: 19 May 1888
Death Registration Month/Year: 1980
Registration district: Oldham
Inferred County: Greater Manchester
Volume: 39
Page: 0076

Which would fit with this birth, which looks like the birth for your Agnes

Births Jun 1888
MCNEILL Agnes Ashton 8d 450

Aaah, looks like there were two Agnes McNeill's in Oldham in 1911 - so possibly the lady going abroad may not be yours

Household MCNEILL, Agnes 1889 22 F Oldham Lancashire
Household MCNEILL, Agnes 1888 23 F Oldham Lancashire

thank's i will do that

You could contact Oldham Library to see if they could look at the electoral roll for 1915 to see who was living at 175 Frederick Street.

They may or may not do look ups and may or may not charge for the service, but its worth a try.

thank's for that ,i will do some checking,i have a faint recollection about someone going to canada.

This could be Agnes coming back into the country

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Agnes Mcneill
Birth Date: abt 1888
Age: 27
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 29 Apr 1915
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Adriatic
Search Ship Database: View the 'Adriatic' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: White Star Line
Official Number: 124061

Address she's going to is 175 Frederick Street, Oldham
Country of last residence - Canada
It gives country of future residence as Scotland

no i do not have the cert,as i have only just started on these two,so that will probobly be my next step