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Hello all,

I am looking for information on TWO of my relations, both named Jane BRETT. The frst was baptised in Wrenbury, Cheshire on 6th August 1815.

This Jane, later had an illegitimate child also named Jane BRETT baptised c. 1843 in Cheshire. Jane 'junior' is living with her aunt Martha Bowker (nee Brett), in 1861. Martha and Jane 'senior' were sisters.

I am trying to find out what became of Jane sernior and Jane junior. I have looked on 1881 but nothing seems to stand out. Did both die before then, or marry or emmigrate? Any help is tracking down this mother and daughter is appreciated.

Thank you,

Peter

Have you tried looking for marriages/deaths on freebmd?

Yes but nothing is initially jumping out to me as the name is quite common, so perhaps it would be best to look on the census? Would someone be able to look them up for me? 1851, 61 and 71 and beyond if they are still about.

Thanks

For Ref...


1861 England Census
about Jane Brett
Name: Jane Brett
Age: 19
Estimated birth year: abt 1842
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Wrenbury, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Eddleston
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England
Registration district: Nantwich
Sub-registration district: Nantwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
John Bowker 47
Martha Bowker 47
Jane Brett 19
Emma Gordon 19
George Brett 25
John E Walley 34

I think this could be one of your Janes

1871 England Census

Name: Edward H Martin
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Jane Martin
Gender: Male
Where born: Nantwich, Cheshire, England
Civil Parish: Madeley
Ecclesiastical parish: Madeley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England
Registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 21
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
Edward H Martin 40 - Land & Estate Agent
Jane Martin 27 - born Wrenbury
Edith Martin 2
Reginald H Martin 9 Months
Thomas Beckett 33
Mary Skinger 2
Sarah Green
Charlotte Inskeep 21
Samuel Bedson 19

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 2834; Folio: 110; Page: 7; GSU roll: 836374.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1867 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Brett Jane Gt. Boughton 8a 488
Martin Edward Harrison Gt. Boughton 8a 488

1851 England Census
about Jane Brate Name: Jane Brate (BRETT)
Age: 7
Estimated birth year: abt 1844
Relation: Niece
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Wrenbury, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Bebington
Ecclesiastical parish: Rock Ferry St Peter
County/Island: Cheshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View image

Registration district: Wirral
Sub-registration district: Neston
ED, institution, or vessel: 13b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 93
Household Members: Name Age
Jane Brate 32
Jane Brate 7
Sarah Grocott 16
Amelia Leifson 6

In 1851 Jane and Jane jnr are living here:

BRATT, Jane Head Unmarried F 32 1819 Dressmaker
Wrenbury
Cheshire
BRATT, Jane Niece F 7 1844 Scholar
Wrenbury
Cheshire
GROCOTT, Sarah Servant F 16 1835 House Servant
Whitchurch
Shropshire
LINGSON, Amelia Boarder F 6 1845 Scholar
Audsham
Cheshire

RG number:
HO107 Piece:
2173 Folio:
382 Page:
32

Registration District:
Wirral Sub District:
Eastham Enumeration District:
13B Ecclesiastical Parish:
Saint Peters Rock Ferry

Civil Parish:
Higher Bebington Municipal Borough:
Address:
2, Kings Street, Higher Bebington County:
Cheshire

Note that Jane jnr is given as Niece not daughter, now this might be true or possibly put to cover up illegitimacy.

There is a marriage in 1855 in Wirral for a Jane Brett:

Marriages Sep 1855
Brett Jane Wirral 8a 495
Griffen Margaret Wirral 8a 495
Knowles Robert Wirral 8a 495
Machin William Wirral 8a 495

Thank you PricklyHolly for the 1861 ... that really helps.

Pam thank you for the 1871 also, but I am not sure if this would one of the Janes I am looking for. I say this as she was born c. 1831, and mine were born c. 1819/1843. Thank you though and of course, it may be here ... people did have a habit of changing their names.

Thank you also Christina and AlexWoozle ... I had never seen the 1851 before. Wow, wonder if niece was recorded to cover up the illegitimate story. Any sign of either of Jane senior after 1851 and Jane junior after 1861? This is the Lancashire BMD reference for the 1855 marriage.

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1855
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BRETT Jane KNOWLES Robert Rock Ferry, St Peter Wirral BK15/1/88

No sign of them in 1881. Can they be found in 1861/1871?

Thank you all for this help.

I need to leave the pc now but I will be back later.

Just to say that I think Pam was on the right track with the 1871 for the young Jane. If you look at the census again I think you'll see she was born c 1843.

Edward marries again before 1881,so it looks as though she has sadly died.
This appears to be their children's baptisms:
Edith Martin 11 Oct 1868 Madeley, Staffordshire, England 6 Jul 1868
Reginald Hall Martin 31 Jul 1870 Madeley, Staffordshire, England 16 Jun 1870
Ernest Edward Martin 29 Sep 1872 Madeley, Staffordshire, England 12 Mar 1872
Cecil Charles Martin 5 Apr 1874 Madeley, Staffordshire, England 28 Dec 1873
Phyllis Martin 26 Dec 1875 Madeley, Staffordshire, England 4 Nov 1875


Maureen

Name: Robert Knowles
Gender: Male
Event Type: Marriage
Birth Date:
Christening Date:
Marriage Date: 06 Aug 1855
Banns Date:
Death Date:
Burial Date:
Event Date:
Birthplace:
Christening Place:
Marriage Place: Rock-Ferry, Cheshire, England
Banns Place:
Death Place:
Burial Place:
Event Place:
Father's Name: Hugh Knowles
Mother's Name:
Principal's Marital Status: Single
Principal's Residence: , Rock-Ferry, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name: Jane Brett
Spouse's Marital Status: Single
Spouse's Residence: , Rock-Ferry, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Father: Joseph Brett
Spouse's Mother:
Age:
Image Number: 276
Digital Folder Number: 4018392
Film Number: 1656759
Collection: England, Cheshire Parish Registers, 1538-2000

Name: Jane Roberts Brett
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 21 May 1843
Marriage Date:
Banns Date:
Death Date:
Burial Date:
Event Date:
Birthplace:
Christening Place: Wrenbury, Cheshire, England
Marriage Place:
Banns Place:
Death Place:
Burial Place:
Event Place:
Father's Name:
Mother's Name: Jane Brett
Principal's Marital Status:
Principal's Residence: , Wrenbury, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Residence:
Spouse's Father:
Spouse's Mother:
Age:
Image Number: 911
Digital Folder Number: 4019041
Film Number: 2106694

With a middle name like Roberts I would imagine that was the surname of her father, often gets given as a middle name to illegitimate children.

I doubt the Jane Brett and Robert Knowles marriage is correct if the father is stated as Joseph. Her baptism gives parents as Thomas and Phillis.

Name: Jane Brett
Gender: Female
Event Type: Christening
Birth Date:
Christening Date: 06 Aug 1815
Marriage Date:
Banns Date:
Death Date:
Burial Date:
Event Date:
Birthplace:
Christening Place: Wrenbury, Cheshire, England
Marriage Place:
Banns Place:
Death Place:
Burial Place:
Event Place:
Father's Name: Thomas Brett
Mother's Name: Phillis Brett
Principal's Marital Status:
Principal's Residence: , Wrenbury, Cheshire, England
Spouse's Name:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Residence:
Spouse's Father:
Spouse's Mother:
Age:
Image Number: 42
Digital Folder Number: 4003977
Film Number: 1836385

Ar, thank you Pam, and please excuse me for not reading your post correctly! Thank you so much ... and thank you also MaureeninNY for pointing that out and for finding their children.

Thank you also safc for the marriage but like Alex, I currently agree that this is probably not Jane senior as her parents are Thomas and Phyllis.

It is interesting to see that Jane junior may have the middle name of Roberts as an indicator as to who her father is. It is also nice to see that Jane junior had a daughter named Phylis, as this seems to help validate a connection (which is important as her father would probably not be listed on the marriage certificate). Jane's grandmother and aunt were named Phylis, and Jane and Edward Martin married in the parish where her aunt Phylis lived (Farndon, Cheshire).

This is possible Jane's death ...

Surname Given Name District Volume Page
Deaths Mar 1876
Martin Jane Age 31 Newcastle L. 6b 42

The district Newcastle L. is an alternative name for Newcastle under Lyme and it is in the county of Staffordshire

This also appears to be her husband's death, although I have no idea what he is doing in London:

Deaths Jun 1889 (>99%)
Martin Edward Harrison 61 Holborn 1b 368 Scan available - click to view

So, with this, what became of Jane senior?! Thank you again for this help!

Edward's second marriage and wife in 1881, with Phyliss (daughter of Jane, showing she had died):

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Marriages Sep 1877 (>99%)
Elwell Alfred Odell Marylebone 1a 962 Scan available - click to view
Hill Mary Eleanor Marylebone 1a 962 Scan available - click to view
Martin Edward Harrison Marylebone 1a 962 Scan available - click to view
Wilkinson Susan Sparrow Marylebone 1a 962 Scan available - click to view

Household:

Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Jane MOSS Head M Female 44 Nantwich
Susan Sparrow MARTIN Visitor M Female 33 Trent Vale, Stafford, England
Phyllis MARTIN Visitor Female 5 Madeley, Stafford, England Scholar
Catherine MADDOCKS Servt U Female 26 Marbury, Cheshire, England Cook Domestic Servt
Sarah ROBERTS Servt Female 25 Overton, Flint, Wales Housemaid Domestic Servt
Hannah HIGLEY Servt Female 18 Hordley, Shropshire, England Nurse Domestic Servt

Source Information:
Dwelling 12 Eaton Road
Census Place Chester St Mary On Hill, Cheshire, England
Family History Library Film 1341851
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 3556 / 86
Page Number 30

Perhaps the fact that he was in London was to do with his job as a Land & Estate Agent.

This is Edward Martin on the 1861 census

1861 England Census
about Edward H Martin Name: Edward H Martin
Age: 29
Estimated birth year: abt 1832
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Nantwich, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Madeley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 23
Household Members: Name Age

Edward H Martin 29 Farmer of 90 acres, Land Agent employing three Labourers
John Stockton 35
Mary Plevin 32
Emma Thickett 19
John Eaton 17


Source Citation: Class: RG9; Piece: 1918; Folio: 53; Page: 6; GSU roll: 542887.

Edward on 1881 census

1881 England Census

Name: Edward H. Martin
Age: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1827
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Nantwich, Cheshire, England

Civil Parish: Madeley
County/Island: Staffordshire
Country: England

Street address: Barr Hill House
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Employment status: Occupation: Land Agent (House)

Registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
Sub-registration district: Newcastle Under Lyme
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: Household Members: Name Age
Edward H. Martin 54
Cecil C. Martin 7 Son
Marian G. Martin 2 Daughter
Clara A. Martin 20 Niece
Sarah Jones 25 Servant, Cook
Ann Talbot 22 Servant, Housemaid
Elizabeth Scragg 19 Servant, Nurse


Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 2701; Folio: 85; Page: 6; GSU roll: 1341647.

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941 about Edward Harrison Martin
Name: Edward Harrison Martin
Probate Date: 7 Aug 1889
Death Date: 27 Jun 1889
Death Place: Stafford, Staffordshire, England
Registry: Lichfield
7 August Administration of the Personal Estate of Edward Harrison Martin late of Bar Hill House Madeley in the County of Stafford Land Agent who died 27 June 1889 at Wood's Hotel Furnival's-Inn Holborn in the County of Middlesex was granted at Lichfield to Susan Sparrow Martin of Bar Hill House Widow the Relict.
Personal Estate £8,817 8s 9d.

Maureen

One little mystery solved:
Daily News (London, England), Saturday, June 29, 1889; Issue 13488.

Mr Edward Harrison Shaw,for twenty-two years Lord Crowe's agent in Cheshire,died suddenly yesterday,at an hotel in London. He had been to Windsor to visit the Royal Agricultural Show.

Maureen

Edit: Thanks,Pam! Shaw should read Martin. Doh!

...and another mystery created....I wonder why he is Edward Harrison Shaw ?