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Jansmith, i think that death propably relates to this birth

Births Jun 1917 (>99%)

Mott Frederick J A Eastlake Islington 1b 302

( Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)

Eastlake Florence M M Mott Islington 1b 625
Mott Frederick Eastlake Islington 1b 625

Thare are these births registered.

Harris Frederick James dec, 1907,1d-922.Camberwell

Harriss Frederick James, mar 1908.4a -201 West Ham,

Alexander may have just been aquired or not showing in the gro indexes

A death
Frederick J A Mott
Death Registration Month/Year: 1938
Age at death (estimated): 21
Registration district: Barnet
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 621

Will index Josephine Martha
25 Canonbury lane Islington
died 13th Nov 1939
at 52 Winchester Ave. Brondesbury London
Probate
to Christopher Norman Archer wine merchants Agent
£887 11s 9d

for info Robert will index
Robert Francis Mott 190 Alexandea Road Hampstead
died 27th Feb 1929
effects £455 8s 6d
Josephine Martha Mott widow

1911

HARRISON, Josiah Walter Head Married M 32 1879 Printer Compositor Worcestershire Evesham VIEW
HARRISON, Clara Wife Married
8 years F 28 1883 Kent Canterbury VIEW
HARRISON, Elebeth Maud Daughter F 6 1905 Kent Rochester VIEW
HARRISON, Frederick James Son M 5 1906 Kent Rochester VIEW
HARRISON, Walter Ernest Son M 2 1909 Staffordshire West Bromwich

Melissa, if Josephine was born 1887 and her first child was born 1905 that would make her 18 years old when the child was born and not 14 yrs although it is unlikeley she would be married at 14 years, the legal age for girls to get married was 12 yrs

still think the marriage cert is your best bet

Roy

I dont have full 1911 either

Frederick James Harrison 1906
living West Ham

Possibly with
Josiah Walter Harrison 1879
Clara 1883
Elebeth Maud 1905
Walter Ernest 1909

Could someone look at this one?

HOUSEHOLD HARRIS DORIS F 1906 5 Kensington London

given that Josephine was in Kensingtom and married R Mott there?

Think his name was

Fredrick James Arthur Hoskins,!Melissa
-------------------------------------------------------

bn 1907 Alexander Fredrick James Plummer?

bn 1908 Fredrick James HARRIS,,1911 hes in West Ham

If anyone has subs to FMP..they can use this against the original 1911census.co.uk site and it allows just a christian name search.

I was trying earlier to find a Doris Florence birth ( incidentally my mother's names lol)



Births Jun 1906 (>99%)

Cade Doris Florence Edmonton 3a 676 ?CALLOW Doris Florence Edmonton 3a 488 ?Dean Doris Florence M Islington 1b 191 ?Prestidge Doris Florence Hackney 1b 407 ?PRIDGETT Doris Florence C Islington 1b 296 ?

Births Sep 1906 (>99%)

Elgar Doris Florence Hackney 1b 505
Godby Doris Florence Hendon 3a 334
Hedges Doris Florence M Hendon 3a 252
Jordan Doris Florence Edmonton 3a 566
Morgan Doris Florence Brentford 3a 223
PEARCE Doris Florence Hackney 1b 511

'might' be worth trying to eliminate them on the 1911?

Back up a minute - Kay?????
I will have to check that, thank you for the clue, I am very excited....!

Rose - Doris' marriage cert has her down as Mott, I think he may have adopted them all as they would only have been about 6,5 and 4 in 1911 when Josephine married Robert. It still doesn't explain where they were in 1911!
Porkie Pie - I was unable to find her in the 1901 census too, would that mean she was abroad? Surely unlikely for a girl of 14? I would have thought that being married at 14 would be unlikely too, even in 1901? Those are the correct marriage details though and I have sent off for her marriage cert (last night!)

Did either Doris or Mabel marry? Do you know that surname? Or the first names of their husbands?

Ozi

now we are getting somewhere, so she was born in stepney
and her first name is Josephena
1891
Name: Josephena M Harris
Age: 4
Estimated birth year: abt 1887
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Abraham Harris born: Poland
Mother's name: Esther Harris
Gender: Female
Where born: Stepney, London, England

Civil Parish: Blackburn
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
Town: Blackburn
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Blackburn
Sub-registration district: Blackburn Northern
ED, institution, or vessel: 46
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Abraham Harris 31
Esther Harris 25
Alexander C Harris 6
Josephena M Harris 4
Florence A Harris 2
Bertha Harris 5/12

Roy

There is a Frederick James A,reg Dec 1907 1a--113 .Southwark, has the surname,

HOSKINS.

Births Jun 1887 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Harris Josephine Mile End 1c 471

I cannot find a birth for Josephine in Whitechapel or find her on the 1901 census with the info you gave and the only Abraham and Esther i can find are in that part of the country is this one

Name: Abraham Harris
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Esther Harris
Gender: Male
Where born: Konin Palish Subject

Civil Parish: Woodville
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas Charlton
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 27
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 18
Household Members: Name Age
Abraham Harris 40
Esther Harris 38
Joseph Harris 18
Sarah Harris 16
Harriet Harris 14
Amelia Harris 12
Rachel Harris 10
Dora Harris 8
Sophia Harris 6
Bertha Harris 4
Leah Harris 1
Morris Segal 30

I think you would need to buy her marriage cert to confirm her details and if she was married befor? as that would explain not being able to find a surname

marriage details
Name: Josephine M Harris
Year of Registration: 1911
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Kensington
County: Greater London, London, Middlesex
Volume: 1a
Page: 420

Roy

Have you Doris Florence's marriage cert? I wonder if that has her birth surname on?

it's just what we have always been told - I asked my mum and my aunts and those are the dates they came back with. I appreciate they may be incorrect as everything else seems to be a family secret!
I do have the birth record for the youngest sister, Bertha, who was Mott's child, born October 22nd 1911 - 6 months after Mott and Josephine Harris were married!