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If the father is possibly Jack Ritson, violinist, then how about an extensive google search for performers at seaside entertainments and other places in the 1920's?

Just realized you can get the electoral rolls for those addresses at the nearest local library. Men over 21 should be listed and any women over 30.

Rose

Penelope,

She probably wasn't married to the father, so she gave him her legal surname or Wilson to cover it up.

If a child was illegitimate, it was common for the mother to use the father's surname as a middle name. I'm thinking this is what happened in this case.

The only Ritson Wilson on FreeBMD that survived was a William. I'm thinking we're looking for a Jack/John/Joseph Ritson.

Rose

nudge for later

Hello Rose

The name of the birth father was 'Jack Ritson Wilson', not just surnamed Ritson as we had previously thought.

In my family a 'Jack' could be a 'Joseph' as well as 'John', which makes it even more tricky.

Yes, I think I will have to wait until the 1921 census. I waited ten years to find the birth cert, so I suppose I can be patient and wait another ten! There is much, much more info to find in other branches. :)

Thank you for your help with this query. I might be back.

This is going to be tough. I imagine we have a Mary Annie Scott who was married to a Wilson, who went on to have a child with a Jack/John Ritson.

Can't see anything obvious but at least you have some addresses to use when the 1921 census is out.

Rose

Oops, sorry. No. Her maiden name was Scott. At least that is what the birth cert said.

Are you saying his mother's maiden name was also Wilson?
Thanks

Hello Rose,

I'd love some more help. Thank you.

DOB and name of child are a match - 15 Jun 1921, Laurie Ritson.

Dad's father named as 'Jack Ritson Wilson' - a musician (violinist), (which we already knew), 'of 17 Mount Parade, York'. His mother named as 'Mary Annie Wilson, Rosedale Bungalow, L__ck View, Monkseaton', which I presume is the one in Northumberland, near Whitley Bay.

I don't know why the addresses were different. Curiouser and curiouser!

Dad was born at Cressington, West Parade, Llandudno. I know that a new Palladium Theatre was built there in 1920, so Jack could having been playing there for the Summer season.

Oh, to have unusual names to make research easier!

Any help would be most appreciated.

Hello Penelope,

Great news about the certificate. I take it the dob matches?

Do you wan to list the details regarding parents and occupations?

Rose

Pleased you are making progress.
Good Luck.

Hello Everyone

The birth for Laurie R Wilson in Conway is my dad. Too many pieces of information match, plus it says "adopted" on the side of the cert.

Thank you very much for the help. I would never have found it - probably too blinkered.

Now having probs finding his parents details. Will be sitting in front of screen all day I think, and may have to come back to you.

Thank you all for your time and help so far.

I shall order that birth cert and see what I can find out from that.

Again - many thanks.

Ah, the fine points of UK adoption law aren't my own forte. ;)

patchem's right and the 1921 LRW could be someone who is still alive now. Not on the current electoral roll, and that would be an advanced age. But the info should be deleted if it proves not to be the right person.

If you can't get your dad's own records directly, you may have to use guesswork and trial and error. In that case, I think I'd start with that 1921 birth certificate, and if the date of birth / middle name matched, you'd have a very likely candidate, at the very least.

Looking for the surname Ritson in Conway finds a 1944 marriage of a Ms Ritson, also known as Parry, and a Mr. Parry. I won't post the details; they're easy to find at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

The fact that she was using his surname suggests a longstanding relationship, with one party not free to marry before. (There are gazillions of Parry deaths in Conway reg dist 1942-44, for instance.) I don't really see a birth to match her name.

Anyhow, I guess that's what I'd try, to start, as it's the only record we're seeing that matches up with any info you have.

Yes, his birth date was 15 June 1921.

He received his short copy when I was registered at the Consulate in Dusseldorf, but I don't know who sent it to him. It was issued on 17 July 1958. (He was still in the Army at that time.)

How would I apply for the original? When I sent a letter to the ONS in 2000, I was redirected to the Adopted Children Register. They sent me a copy of the adoption cert. Dad could have received a full copy of the original birth cert if he had been alive, but, as his child, I could not (at that time).

The 1921 Laurie Wilson birth could be still alive if a different person.

How did he acquire the short cert?

Rose

It was the date of birth I was first asking after, Penelope.

There are no other Scott-Wilson births in Conway. 1916-1921, I don't see a Scott-Wilson marriage anywhere in that vicinity. As Rose says - no death for the name, either. (However, 1921 makes him of an age that he might have died in WWII, if that was a separate person.)

I'm not understanding, though -- Penelope's dad would have been able to get his original birth certificate during his lifetime -- or at least, if he were living now he could -- I'm not sure whether there was a recent legislative change to make that possible. Have you investigated, Penelope, and is it not available to you?

edit -- I'd ask the horse's mouth:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/Adoptionrecords/DG_175567

Yes, is just says Wales. We were always told he was born in Wales and his natural mother was Welsh. We were also told that his birth parents were married, but I realize that this may not have been true.

There are three numbers on the cert - JA 137414, in the top left, 58620 on the top right, and 13579/28, which corresponds with the copy adoption cert. (Adoption number ACR 003659/00.

Does the short certificate just say Wales, no further destination?
Thanks