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Thank you for info. about death certificate. I shall keep trying to solve the puzzle!
Glenys

Your very welcome.

If you ever want to get the death certificate, go to

www.joymurrin.com

you can get transcriptions a lot cheaper (only applies to New South Wales).

Just checked on igi for John Grimes!
20th February 1833 Nuneaton Warwickshire - parents Samuel and Elizabeth. Looks more than likely that the 1903 death is him.
Thanks again

This may well be him. I am sure those are correct parents -more checking to do!
It seems that Emma came back with three children and married my Gt. Gt Grandfather nine years later.
A mystery that may never be solved!!!!!
Thank you Mel75 for info from records in your part of the world. I certainly have a great deal of information I can now put together.
Glenys

???? Found the following death in New South Wales, could this be him

Reg No/Yr Surname Name Fathers Name Mothers Name District

7409/1903 Grimes John Samuel Elizabeth Parramatta

Well done -- I hadn't done the work to look for Frederick, myself.

Bigamists in the 19th century ... no worse than divorcé(e)s in this! (And that really isn't bad at all -- especially when we consider how many good grounds a spouse might have had for ending the relationship.) Think of it this way: at least they *tried * to be respectable! ;)

I might think that since a child was living with the paternal grandparents, she was more likely widowed than estranged, but you never know, he might have remained in Australia and they were sympathetic (or maybe unsympathetic) to her.

Sorry all senior moment sent my last post on my daughter's area
Glenys

Hello and thank you all
Sorry for the delay. Thank you Mel75 for info on other children,I only knew about Ernest.
I did think that John's parents were Edward and Ann - BUT with the new info I have found -1871 census Samuel and Elizabeth Grimes who have a grandson Frederick Grimes born in Australia living with them, This is Nuneaton Warwickshire. I then checked back to the 1851 census and found the same family with among others a son John age 18.It looks like when Emma returned to England Ernest was the only child that lived with her. Emma married my Gt Gt Grandfather John Ellcock in1875 Aston Warwickshire. I hope John Grimes had died before she married John Ellcock- otherwise I have two bigamists in the family
Glenys

ok Mel
I will stop until we hear back from Glenys
Maybe he went back to England as well

moonbi,

I live in Victoria, so know Melbourne districts well. I am still not convinced that it is indeed the correct John.

I think we need a few answers from Glenys.

Thanks Janey, cannot find a death with parents Edward & Ann!!

Looks like that year appears to be 1870

thanks Mel
Couldnt see all the facts on vic bdm as Im not paying to see.

Collingwood is a suburb of Melbourne

Oops, I was editing above as I searched for John pre-marriage in England.

I think he's the son of Edward and Ann -- note that his son Ernest's second name was Edward (and the other son seems to have been named for Emma's brother Frederick).

Have checked deaths up until 1920. I cannot find any where the age is about the same. I might be able to find his death, if I had the parents names.

moonbi,

Just for ref

Surname: Grimes
Name: John born Yorkshire
Event: Marriage
Spouses Surname: Byrnes
Spouses Name: Bridget
Yr: 1870
Reg No: 4074

there was 4 children born, all in Collingwood

This is Ancestry's fabulous record for Emma in 1851
(note that Emma Jr is with grandmother Elizabeth Simpson in 1881):

Name: Elmon Sculthorpe = Emma on image
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Daughter-in-Law = Stepdaughter
Spouse's name: Fredy Jno Simpson = utter nonsense
Where born: Leicestershire, England

Civil Parish: Leicester St Martin
County/Island: Leicestershire

Jonn Simpson 40
Elizth Simpson 35
Elmon Sculthorpe 14
Fredy Jno Simpson 5
Wm Simpson 21
Wm Simpson 26 (astounding; she is Mill(?) Harry, Servant)


This is about the only available John Grimes in 1851:

Name: John Grimes
Age: 14
Estimated birth year: abt 1837
Relation: Son
Father's name: Edward Grimes
Mother's name: Ann Grimes
Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

Civil Parish: Leicester St Margaret
Town: Leicester
County/Island: Leicestershire

Edward Grimes 41
Ann Grimes 41
John Grimes 14
Catherine Grimes 11
James Grimes 5

Any marriages for John Grimes in Victoria after 1864

there is one marriage for a John Grimes using search dates
1863 to 1880

There is only 1 death in Victoria for a John Grimes (he was aged 17 months), up until 1888.

As Janey said, are you sure that he died, maybe Emma returned to England because of the harsh conditions of that time.

three children born in three different places
Frederick in Windsor

Ernest in Ballarat

Emeline in Melbourne

I think you should widen your death search for the father, not just Ballarat
Was his occupation 'Miner' ?

Do you know John's parents names?