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Okay xxx

nothing seems to be coming of searches

I very strongly suggest that you check what that marriage certificate says for yourself and come back and let us know

chrissie x

Chrissiex that 1901 census is correct Gladys Jane Thomas married William Williams in 1899 in Pontypridd, Glamorgan, Wales. They had my Nan Phyllis Williams in 1924 in Bridgend, Glamorgan, Wales who later married my Grandfather Emlyn John Clemett.

is this daughter Gladys in 1901, again just wanting to to get an idea of where everybody was

Name: Gladys J Williams
Age in 1901: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1881
Relation: Wife
Spouse's name: William Williams
Gender: Female
Where born: Treforest, Glamorgan, Wales

Civil Parish: Pontypridd

Household Members:
Name Age
William Williams 25
Gladys J Williams 20
Elizabeth J Williams 1


Marriages Dec 1899
Lewis Elizabeth Pontypridd 11a 955
Thomas Gladys Jane Pontypridd 11a 955 <<<<
Williams Walter Pontypridd 11a 955
Williams William Pontypridd 11a 955 <<<<

I think maybe he was Benjamin RowlandS and he was may be already married for example

Marriages Jun 1866
Owens Martha Anglesey 11b 1049
Rowlands Benjamin Anglesey 11b 1049

it means Charles Thomas could not write, and that would be very surprising for the son of a surgeon !

'no occupation' for the son of that William Thomas surgeon, it means 'idle rich', lol. He may have got a job when he finally grew up but for then he had better things to do I reckon.

I would get hold of a photocopy or look at the original, the idea of Sawyer came to me becaues I was looking for Charles Thomas born in Newport in the 1851 census and there is one whose father is Thomas Thomas a Sawyer and I just noticed how it could be misread maybe.


what happened to Charles after 1881 ... well, he remains to be found ! or he might have died and Bessie couldn't marry Benjamin for another reason.

I searched for any other information about Benjamin Rowland, birth marriage death census, but can find nothing except maybe this birth

Births Jun 1839
Rowland Benjamin Anglesey 27 408

and he would be this one in 1851

Name: Benjamin Rowland
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1839
Relation: Son
Father's name: John Rowland
Mother's name: Martha Rowland
Gender: Male
Where born: Llanwenllwyfo, Anglesey, Wales
Civil Parish or Township: Llechcynfarwydd
Town: Llanerchymedd
County/Island: Anglesey

but nothing more .........

about your post above mine. chrissiex that is interesting about the occupation being something else I had the marriage certificate from the Pontypridd registry office and it is not the original they transcribed the original and gave me a brand new copy. Looking back at the marriage certificate I've noticed something else it states "The marriage was solemnized between us but then it says X the mark of charles thomas" Does this mean Charles Thomas couldn't write.

chrissiex I think your right I have also looked through the marriage index and couldn't find her remarrying so what happened to charles? I also wanted to ask if your father was a surgeon was it usually seen that his children would not get jobs as the father was a wealthy man was just wondering because there is a 1881 census record on one of the post on here that states a William Thomas who was a surgeon said that his son charles had no occupation could this possible mean that this William was embarrassed by his sons occupation and choose to say nothing hope that makes sense.

One other question, are you 100% certain that the marriage certificate says Surgeon. Handwriting can be deceiving, and it could say something like Sawyer ............

chrissie x

I just saw your post above mine so one more point, Bessie was never actually married to Benjamin Rowland, if you search the marriage index, and since it doesnt seem that Benjamin Rowland was married before it looks like she and Charles Thomas were still married and Charles Thomas was still living (or she and Benjamin Rowland would have married).

chrissie x

some things for you to consider Martin because when you choose to ask for help here it seems to be because you think others here can maybe do things better than you can and you could be right

many many people did not give correct information about their father when they married, here are some possible reasons

their parents were not married and they were given their mother's surname when their birth was registered, but their mother married and they grew up with their stepfather's surname and used it when they married .... in that case ... they might name their stepfather as their father even if he wasn't

their parents were married but their father died young and their mother remarried and they grew up with their stepfather's surname ... ditto ...

their parents were not married and their mother never married but when they got married they did not want to admit they were 'illegitimate' so they made up a father ... maybe their mother's father, maybe even their real father's first name if they knew it but with their mother's surname ...

they were orphaned young and grew up in an institution and simply had no idea who their father was but did not want to say that so they made up a father ......

they had been in trouble with the law or they were already married so they changed their name and they had to make up a father to go with it when they married ...

they were young when their father died and they just didn't remember his given name or his occupation so they made them up ...

they were young when their father died and they really believed their stepfather was their father so that is what they said when they married ...

all of these things happened, the most common being that someone's parents were not married so they made up a father I think

It doesn't make sense to anyone that the son of a surgeon would be a ginger beer carter or marry the daughter of a hauler (it does make sense that a ginger beer carter would marry the daughter of a hauler). It isn't about being clever, it's about being wealthy, a surgeon would be wealthy and his son would find some kind of employment that was not manual labour. Unless there was a family feud of some sort.

This is what the people you asked for help tell you. We also tell you that we need to know everything you know, which is plain common sense. If you don't want to listen that is up to you but if you only want certain answers it probably isn't worth your time to ask or ours to try to answer.

chrissie x

Right I am going to put everything I know On here to help:

Fist I am trying to find the Grandparents of my Great Grandmother Gladys Jane Thomas. Gladys (Sometimes spelt gwladys) was born Nov 21, 1882 at 13 River Street, Treforest, Pontypridd. I have her birth certificate it states that her father is Charles Thomas and that he is a Coal Retailer. Her mother is Bessie " Born Elizabeth" Griffiths.

Charles Thomas and Elizabeth Griffiths married May 21, 1880 in Carmel Chapel, Pontypridd. Charles is 27 years old and he states his occupation as Ginger Beer Seller, he says he is living at 8 River Street, Pontypridd and that his father is William Thomas who is Deceased it says he was a Surgeon. Elizabeth Griffiths is 23 years old she states she is a Domestic Servant and that she is living at Taff Street, Pontypridd. She states her father is Thomas Griffiths and that he is deceased and was a Haulier. The witnesses are James Price Jones and Richard Lewis Francis and the Registrar is David Powell.

I know that in the 1891 census Gladys Jane can be found with her mother Elizabeth who has remarried to a Benjamin Rowland so I believe either Charles and Elizabeth split up or Charles died.

This is what I know of Charles he was born 1853 in the Newport, Monmouth, Wales area his parents are the ones I want to find although I have had trouble finding Elizabeth's also. Elizabeth Griffiths was born about 1857 in Llandaff, Cardiff area. I believe Charles and Elizabeth had only the one child my Great Grandmother Gladys Jane Thomas in 1882. Is there any thing else anybody needs to know that i've forgotten to mention.
Kind Regards Martin

Martin, simple answer - be patient!

Some of us have been doing our trees for many, many years and are still chipping away at brick walls. I've been trying to find my great grandfather's birth for five years. But, every so often you get a breakthrough.

We'll plod on with this and see what might come to light, but don't expect overnight miracles.

I understand that but I'm just frustrated I've been researching my family tree for 4 months now and just don't know what to do next. I've tried searching and searching with no results and I can't get Charles birth certificate as I don't know which one to get there are so many plus if he did make up his father what would his registered surname be I'm just confused. What do I do?

Martin, what you have to realise is that we often trace a person forwards to establish we've got the right details going backwards. Plus, you never know what useful connection you might find.

you are most welcome Martin

chrissie x

Thank you for the help and chrissiex no need to get nasty I am human after all and I do forget things yes I did know that Charles and Bessie did split as I couldn't find them together after 1881 but that is not what I needed help with, I wanted to know who Charles's Parents were and him splitting with his wife or dying was not in question! I don't think knowing what Charles did in later life would help you find his parents READ MY ORIGINAL MESSAGE. Charles wife Bessie fathers occupation was a Haulier on marriage certificate. I just want help to find Charles parents I know all about his later life.

lol, only problem is that tempest found our Charles in 1881 already wit his wife ........

THOMAS, Charles Head Married M 30 1851 Ginger Beer Driver (Carter) Newport Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Bessie Wife Married F 23 1858 Housekeeper Llandaff Glamorganshire Wales


it is an interesting coincidence though

Found this in 1881 census???
Age and place are not right but then people did lie about their age etc.

THOMAS, William L Head Married M 64 1817 Surgeon
Horsham
Sussex
THOMAS, Elizabeth Wife Married F 61 1820
Pulborough
Sussex
THOMAS, Charles M Son Married M 34 1847 Surgeons Son No Occupation
Horsham
Sussex
FRANKES, Elizabeth Servant Single F 21 1860 Housemaid
Rusper
Sussex
HILLMAN, Annie Servant Single F 16 1865 Genl Serv
Slinfold
Sussex

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RG number:
RG11 Piece:
1107 Folio:
95 Page:
7

Registration District:
Horsham Sub District:
North Horsham Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Horsham Municipal Borough:
Address:
16, Richmond Ter Carfax, Horsham County:
Sussex

This is the only one I can find with father, William in 1861 census?

THOMAS, William Head Married M 30 1831 Gardener
Llanfrechfa Upper
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Hannah Wife Married F 29 1832
Caerleon
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Charles Son M 8 1853 Scholar
Caerleon
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Herbert Son M 3 1858 Scholar
Llanfrechfa
Monmouthshire
THOMAS, Emma R Daughter F 2 1859
Llanfrechfa
Monmouthshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG09 Piece:
4011 Folio:
19 Page:
51

Registration District:
Pontypool Sub District:
2 Llangibby Enumeration District:
Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Llanvrechva Upper Municipal Borough:
Address:
Ladywell Row, Llanvrechva Upper County:
Monmouthshire