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thanks simon.
i seem to have made a pigs ear of this,perhaps i should provide more details first

No, Simon, you're really not quite so ...

Paul, I couldn't care less what you have "hanging around somewhere".

If you want OTHER PEOPLE -- you know, other human beings with lives who pay to use this website -- to help you when you ask for help, it's your responsibility to provide the information you have. Accurate, complete information.

You seem to have no desire to do that, so I'll be getting off the train here.

Paul

You are in great hands with Ann and JC, but you do need to be clear, accurate and concise on the information you provide.

what thread was that,simon?

are we getting there like british rail?

I do love threads like this, it reminds me of one of mine.

I have actually reseached alice redman,have marriage certificate hanging around somewhere,i do know the parish.
The frederick and ann redman in soton are the right ones,perhaps my memory is playing tricks or st marys is possibly a subdivision to which all saints belongs.
Thanks you for the info,janeychuck

Thank you Ann! I think I'd run into that once. ;)

Still no reply from Paul as to the 1851 census details. Sometimes it's just pointless.

Soton is short for Southampton

the idea that richard bateman was a custom officer may be a mistake on my part,my apologies,i think i mixed him up with someone on access to archives in 1645,also come across a receiver of renevues(sp?) died 1737? south wales

"ts his daughter alice i am descended from,she married james shepherd/shepperd(various spellings) 1862 approx in headbourne worthy"

Have you not actually researched the marriage?

http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl

It's actually registered twice, for some reason , in Winchester reg dist, nowhere near 1862. Unless two Alice Redmans married two James Shepherds in the same district a few weeks apart. You never know.

I have no idea what/where Soton All Saints is. It is not a place name in the 1851 census, evidently. From googling, it is apparently in Southampton. Why exactly is the census I posted for 1851, Ann and Frederick Redman in Southampton, the only Ann and Frederick I can find anywhere, not the right household?


1841 in Wonston, Winchester, Hampshire

Frederick Redman 40
Anne Redman 40 - not born in county
Anne Redman 13
>> Alice Redman 9
William Redman 7
Henry Redman 5
Hannah Redman 2
James Redman 2
Edward Redman 5 MO

1851 in Southampton St Mary

Frederick Redman 46 - servant, born Arundel
Ann Redman 47 - laundress
Mary Ann Redman 22 - born Surrey Stains
>> Alice Redman 20 - born " "
William Redman 17 - born Hampshire Basingstoke
Henry Redman 15
Hannah Redman 12
James Redman 12
Edward Redman 10
Alfred Redman 7

1861 in Southampton St Mary, Hampshire

Frederick Redman 64 >>> born Buckinghamshire
Ann Redman 69 >>> born Buckinghamshire
Hannah Redman 22
James Redman 22
Alfred Redman 17
Edward Leach 8
Louisa Shepton 2


It's rather too obviously the same household in each census.

And I was hardly suggesting so, sigh.

;) is the sign of a wink.


"51 census is wrong,methinks,because frederick and ann redman were in soton all saints(at least according to the hampshire genealogical society census index) "

Have you considered POSTING THE INFORMATION YOU HAVE as I asked in the very beginning?

Evidently I wasted my time looking for these people in censuses so as to get the basic background information given in them, as I have come up with the wrong people, and you are still not providing the information you have.

well someone born in 1614 would hardly be the same person in the 1800's

Thanks everyone for the information,i don't think the richard born in 1614 is the richard bateman of the 1800s,I notice on familysearch there was a richard/anne bateman supposedly in newchurch,iow as well as cheverill,wilts as well as westerham,west kent which is perhaps not too far from croydon,which frederick redman mentions as birthplace in 61 census.
51 census is wrong,methinks,because frederick and ann redman were in soton all saints(at least according to the hampshire genealogical society census index)

Since the other baptisms of children of Richard and Anna were later than Ann's birth (and note how old Ann is in 1861! born c1792), it's possible that Ann was born before their marriage.

Searching for births of Ann with mother Anna in Arundel at pilot.familysearch, there are two with mother Hannah: Ivers 1795 and Fowler 1802.

The Richard-Anna marriage could have been a second one for Anna/Hannah. Oddly, the Fowler couple had two children baptised on 8 and 18 June, 1802: Anne and Hannah. Possibly a duplicate record with some mistranscription involved ...

That was the last baptism of any child of that couple.

Just to note that in 1841 there were several Redmans of that generation in Arundel

George Redman abt 1801 Sussex, England Arundel, Sussex
Mark Redman abt 1801 Sussex, England Arundel, Sussex
William Redman abt 1804 Sussex, England Arundel, Sussex

but no Batemans, and in later censuses there are no Batemans born in Arundel that early.


Might this be Thomas son of Richard and Anna Bateman, in 1841?

Name: Thomas Bateman
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Where born: Sussex, England

Civil parish: Slindon
County/Island: Sussex
Registration district: Chichester

Thomas Bateman 30
Sarah Bateman 40
Edward Bateman 4


In 1851:

Name: Thomas Bateman
Age: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1807
Relation: Head
Where born: Slindon, Sussex, England
Civil parish: Slindon


Slindon is called "Slindon, Arundel, United Kingdom", at Google Maps. It's about 3 miles distant.

That Thomas is in one person's tree here at GR:

Thomas Bateman 1807 Slindon West Sussex



Yeah, eh? AoGG. Especially since we're the ones who posted all the necessary info that Paul didn't.


edit - no, that Thomas is probably this Thomas:

Name: Thomas Bateman
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 11 Nov 1806
Baptism/Christening Place: SLINDON-RC,SLINDON,SUSSEX,ENGLAND
Father's Name: Gulielmi Bateman
Mother's Name: Teresiae Lloyd
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01779-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 599707
Collection: England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975

-- but if you search for Bateman events in Slindon at pilot.familysearch there are loads of them, which does indicate Batemans in the vicinity at that time. There's even a Richard born in 1614. ;)

a "please" or "thank you" would have been nice Paul

I think richard and anna/anne moved into arundel,soon after anne bateman was born,hence the mention of arundel as birthplace.
Anne died possibly 1864 one,only frederick redman married ann viall,widow,daughter of george ventham of minstead.(this is where i get william redman,coachman from)
I wonder if bateman and redman family knew each other from the 1800s), might even have been coachmen as well.
I may have to start again.
Its his daughter alice i am descended from,she married james shepherd/shepperd(various spellings) 1862 approx in headbourne worthy,daughter elizabeth married edward spiers in ropley 1881

Note that in the 1861 it does say born Buckinghamshire.

It almost looks like Ann got assigned her husband's birth place every time. ;)