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Rose - the marriage to Sarah Whitehouse is a bit of a distraction at the mo...I may turn my attention back to it some time!

MEANWHILE....any Bradford historians out there? The place of birth is shown as Park Lodge New Hey Road. I think this is one of two lodges at Bowling Park Bradford. Was it ever used as a hospital? And then the informant's address at the time, Sarah Hartley, mother, was 1 Pen Street Bradford. I'd like to know if this was close to Bowling Park? In 1891 census - Sarah is back in Worcester by this time - John Richard Hartley is with his parents at Policeman's Lodge Bowling Park.

I am trying to connect the three!

Jude

Sarah?

Births Mar 1866
WHITEHOUSE Sarah R W Bromwich 6b 698

Rose

I don't think it would tell me much Rose.

She (in the marriage) is Sarah Rebecca Whitehouse and my Sarah is Sarah Ann Cox. I can't find anything linking the two Sarahs....it might confirm it is or isn't the same John Richard

I am sure that John Richard son of William and Hannah (nee Nicholson) is the father of Albert and the "husband" of Sarah Ann - simply because of Albert's middle name.

I just have the resignation that they were not married and the fact they don't appear together at any census just reinforces this..I am sure 1891 census is her and Albert and that the 1901 censuses I have for Albert and her are kosher - but where is he in 1901? And then in 1911 I have him - for sure with brother Frederick and parents - and Albert in a stud in Yorkshire (this is a guess but it seems to fit)...but I don't have Sarah. And I don't have a death or a remarriage for her.

I guess this is the pleasure and the pain in what we are all doing... c'est la vie!

Why not order the marriage cert to confirm things?

Rose

Choccy thanks...at least it eliminates one. Though it doesn't help the mystery....Dea please do.....!!!!!

I have tried everything I can think of. But to no avail...they didn't even have the decency to die before 1941 and leave a will with clues - ha ha!!

I know how you feel Jude and I concede defeat also BUT it still baffles me so I will be keeping it on my 'to work on' list and will let you know IF I find anything useful !!

Dea Xxx :-(

looks like he married Sarah Rebecca Whtiehouse


Marriages Jun 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fuller George Bradford, Y. 9b 298
Gibson Sarah Eleanor Bradford, Y. 9b 298
>>>>HARTLEY John Richard Bradford Y. 9b 298
>>>>WHITEHOUSE Sarah Rebecca Bradford, Y. 9b 298



1891

here's George Fuller with Sarah E Fuller

FULLER, George Head Married M 28 1863 Police Constable
Suffolk VIEW
FULLER, Sarah E Wife Married F 25 1866
Bradford
Yorkshire VIEW

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Piece:
3619 Folio:
79 Page:
25 Registration District:
Bradford

Civil Parish:
Bowling Municipal Borough:
Bradford Address:
23, Pembroke Street, Bowling, Bradford County:
Yorkshire (West Riding)

1901 There is a John Richard Hartley 34 with a Clara no children,and one with a Jane with a few children.

The one with Jane (I think) is John REANEY Hartley.

But I am conceding defeat...

Can't find a marriage for Sarah (Ann) Cox to John Richard Hartley. So he appears to have married in 1885 to either Sarah Rebecca Whitehouse or Sarah Eleanor Gibson...but he's not with a wife called Sarah anything in 1891. The "wife" on Albert's birth certificate is at her mother's in King's Norton. And she is "widowed" in Edgbaston in 1901 with son Albert with her aunt in Worcestershire...only John Richard wasn't dead......and I can't find a death for either of them :-(

Oh and in 1911 he claims to have been married for 25 years and have had two children still living - so assuming Albert is one who's the other??? :-S

And for reference this is what I THINK is her in 1901

Name: Sarah A Hartley
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1862
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Stourport, Worcestershire, England
Civil parish: Edgbaston
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Kings Norton
Sub-registration district: Edgbaston
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 212
Piece: 2816
Folio: 169
Page Number: 34
Household Members:
Name Age
Eliza Barnett 46
Norris T Foster 46
Emily Price 30
Sarah A Hartley 39

And the original says she is widowed...when of course we now know she wasn't

The only Sarah Hartley with a child that I find is MY Sarah


Name: Sarah Dunford
[Sarah Hartley]
( Ancestry incorrectly called her Dunford the image says Hartley for her and Albert )
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1860
Relation: Daughter
Mother's name: Eliza Dunford
Gender: Female
Where born: Stourport, Worcestershire, England

Civil parish: Kings Norton

Eliza Dunford 57
Richard Dunford 13
John Dunford 21
Sarah Dunford 31
Albert Dunford 6 >>>> does it say 1 or 6 on the image ?

And Albert is 1

Can anyone see a Sarah (Eleanor or Rebecca) Hartley with a child in 1891?

Rose

1901 D11 > 21 Bradford east
13,Sandford road
William hartley 1839 bootmaker
hannah born otley
Frederick W hartley 22 bootmaker
No John R

1901 There is a John Richard Hartley 34 with a Clara no children,and one with a Jane with a few children.

Maryb.

As Alice or was it the Cheshire Cat said...curiouser and curiouser. The more I look the more I believe she became pregnant, was not married, gave birth, registered as "married" and then returned home to Worcestershire as newly married and then by next census was widowed. Reality ...never married never widowed...oh the shame of it!! :-)

He was married already:

Marriages Jun 1885
Fuller George Bradford, Y. 9b 298
Gibson Sarah Eleanor Bradford, Y. 9b 298
HARTLEY John Richard Bradford Y. 9b 298
WHITEHOUSE Sarah Rebecca Bradford, Y. 9b 298

Rose

Ha ha Mary we matched/crossed :-)

It has to be the same family...the address fits too...I thought it said on the birth certificate Fleur Hey Road..but it's New Hey Road...birthplace on original 1911 census is Eccleshill...oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!!

Yeah that looks good...spanner in the works though

In 1901 what I think is Sarah is widowed...but what's this in 1911? (Theodora is Frederick!!!!)

Name: John Richard Hartley
Age in 1911: 44
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Doddshill Bfd, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Bradford
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 185 New Hey Road Bradford
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Metal Gaoler
Registration district: Bradford
Registration District Number: 498
Sub-registration district: Bowling
ED, institution, or vessel: 07
Piece: 26681
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hartley 72
Hannah Hartley 69
John Richard Hartley 44
Theodora William Hartley 32

John Richard shown as married...seems unlikely we have the wrong people...so did they split up and she starts stating "widowed"? Were they ever married?

Aaaagh ...the pleasure and the pain!!!!

1911 185 new hey road Bowling.
William hartley police pensioner
hannah
John Richard 1867 born Eccleshill married 25 years 2 children born 2 still alive

So is it the same John Richard Hartley??

Maryb.

Was trying to figure out where Nicholson came into it. This looks the be John's parents' marriage:

Marriages Dec 1861
Hartley William Otley 9a 211
Nicholson Hannah Otley 9a 211

Rose

So this is 1891...it fits with birth certificate...where born is Park Lodge Fleur Hay Road and residence is 1 Pen (?) Street...but sub-district is Bowering. So seemingly Sarah is visiting mum in March 1891 leaving John (dad) at home...

marriage next target!

This looks like it might be John Richard??

HARTLEY, William Head Married M 52 1839 Police Constable
Eccleshill
Yorkshire VIEW
HARTLEY, Hannah Wife Married F 49 1842
Otley
Yorkshire VIEW
HARTLEY, Mary A Daughter Single F 28 1863 Piece Burler & Mender
Eccleshill
Yorkshire VIEW
****HARTLEY, John R Son Married M 24 1867 Carter
Eccleshill
Yorkshire VIEW
HARTLEY, Ernest Son Single M 22 1869 Dyers Labourer
Undercliffe
Yorkshire VIEW
HARTLEY, Fredk W Son M 12 1879 Scholar
Bradford
Yorkshire VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Piece:
3618 Folio:
15 Page:
24 Registration District:
Bradford

Civil Parish:
Bowling Municipal Borough:
Bradford Address:
Policemans Lodge, Bowling Park Drive, Bowling, Bradford County:
Yorkshire (West Riding)

Dea x