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Hello, I was going thru the Molyneux posts here on GRU and came across this post.
Although it isn't relative to the question. I see you mentioned a Thomas Molyneux and his wife Ann with children Ann, Mary & son Thomas.
[I know Thomas Jr's.wife and children and their spouses but it ends there.]
I was wondering if mother Ann's of which you mentioned could maiden name could of been Johnson.
If so then it's the Thomas I'm trying to tie into my data.
I had Thomas & Ann with son Thomas but had no sisters.
I'd like to add any info on Ann And Mary
I personally am descended from the older Thomas's sister Ellen Molyneux.my gg-grandmother. Of which I can't seem to get to much info on other than birth and marrige data. thanks ...Gary

Hannah would not be old enough to be the "Annie" of 1901. As brother Thomas and his wife are with Ann and Henry Mills in 1901 and if Margaret has the marriage certificate for Ann stating she is the daughter of Thomas, a carter, I think it's almost certain that it's the family we tracked back yesterday.

BWs

Kim

???
Just had a thought about that marriage for a Thomas posted yesterday (and which I deleted today as the age & occupation did not fit with our previous findings) and found these in 1891 @ 55 Saxon Street, West Derby:

Thomas Molyneux 49 carter b Simonswood
Hannah wife 49 b Rainford
Thomas son 22 printer/compositer b Liverpool
John son 17 printer/compositer b Liverpool

Unfortunately, there's no Ann with them in 1881!

How about you step back a bit further and tell us what you know of the children of Henry and Annie?

I've been looking for Henry Mills married to Ann in the 1891 without success - perhaps he was away at sea and she was at home with parents and the enumerator has assumed she was single.

Bets wishes

Kim

Ahh I think I see what you are saying

Marriages Mar 1890
MILLS Henry W. Derby 8b 556
Molyneux Ann W.Derby 8b 556

1891 census - household transcription
Person: MOLYNEUX, Ann
Address: 25, Teulon Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Thomas Head Married M 60 1831 Carter Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Ann Wife Married F 64 1827 Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Ann Daughter Single F 30 1861 Liverpool <<<<<<<
MOLYNEUX, Mary A Daughter Single F 15 1876 Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Thomas Son M 12 1879 Liverpool

She should be married in 1891.

You have still not come back with your source for date of marriage and address. It would help tremendously.

Margaret,

The Matthew Molyneux I referred to above was born on 30 Sep 1860 and baptised in St Peter's, Liverpool on 16 Oct 1860. His parents were Thomas (a labourer) and Ann of Slade Street - the address LadyKira has given you for the 1861, where Thomas is shown as a carter. Matthew died in 1867.

It looks like he may well have had a couple of brothers born in the 1860s:

George Molyneux born 29 Dec 1865 and baptised 15 Jan 1866 in St Peter's, son Of Thomas (labourer) and Ann of Bostock Street. He died in 1869

Thomas William Molyneux born 29 Aug 1868 and baptised on the 9 Sep 1868. Other details as George above. Thomas Wm died in 1870

Is it only the slightly skewiff birth years that you are unsure about? I wouldn't be too worried about it - they were often a bit out perhaps because of clerical error or they wanted to appear younger or older than they actually were. Everything else about the census entries seems to fit:

1861 in 42 Slade Street: Thomas (30), Ann (24), Margaret (2) & Matthew (6months)

1881 in 25 Paxton Street: Thomas (50), Ann (43), Ann (11) & Mary (8) My only concern with this one is that Thomas was not at home but there are various reasons I can think of as to why he would be absent...or perhaps he was adopted.

1891 in 25 Teulon Street: Thomas (60), Ann (64), Ann (30), Mary A (15) & Thomas (12). BUT the enumerator has scored through the ages and they are virtually impossible to read. To me, on the original the ages of Ann and Mary A look like 20 and 17 respectively.

1901 in 43 Medlock Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool: Harry Mills (36), Annie (29), Ethel (4), Thomas (2), Annie (6 mo), Thomas Molyneux (21), Mary Ann (21), Thomas (9 mo) and Annie senior, widow (74)

1911 in 74 Arlington Street Henry Mills (45), Ann (39), Mary Alice (19), Anna (16), Ethel (15), Thomas Henry (13), Annie (11), Mary Elizabeth (6) & May (4). The return shows that they have had 7 children, of whom 4 are still living but all of the children listed above are listed as son/daughter, so some of them were adopted.

I have been unable to trace them in 1871 or the earlier census years of 1841 and 1851. You could really do with getting hold of a birth certificate for one of the children but there were several Anns born about the same time. Matthew would be the best choice as we have his exact date of birth and can pinpoint him on a census but it looks as if his birth may not have been registered :-P

The only one I seem to be able to pin down is Thomas William, whose birth was registered in Liverpool Sep qr 1868 vol 8b pg 65. Perhaps if you told Liverpool registrars that you only wanted the certificate if he was the son of Thomas & Ann, they might not cash your cheque if it turned out he was the wrong one!

I did have a look for the marriage of Thomas & Ann. There was an 1851 marriage between Thomas Molyneux & Ann Weadell at the register office but it seems a little early and I suspect "Weadell" may be misspelt.

I hope this goes some way towards clarifying, rather than confusing, the issue. Please, do let us know what you think and whether there are any other issues which need resolution.

Best wishes

Kim in Hull

I have deleted the marriage I found as it was clearly far too early

Margaret, there were a lot of Thomas Molyneuxes around in Lancashire at the time. The only way you can sort them out is by working backwards through the BMD certificates until you get to a stage where you can pinpoint them successfully on the census, otherwise you will get into an awful tangle. We would like to help but we need to know what you have already - and what you are sure of - so that we, too, are not chasing our tails. Do you have the birth certificates for your direct ancestors back Henry Mills and Ann(ie) Molyneux? If so and if you are absolutely sure they are the correct parents, do you have their marriage certificate? If you could post the details of that certificate on your thread, including the names of witnesses, then I for one would happily have another look at it for you.

Incidentally, if the 1861 census entry found by LadyKira is correct, then the baptism of Matthew appears to be on Ancestry but Thomas's occupation is shown as labourer....if they were unskilled or semiskilled they did not always follow the same occupation, unfortunately.

Best wishes

Kim in Hull

Hi Kim

It is a wonderful site but as you say over &00 Thomas's to choose from. I have already checked for Thomas Annie and her siblings bu I have not as yet found a match.

I have also checked on Liverpool marriage records on Ancestry.

It is definitely the marriage certificate you need between Henry and Annie. You have been asked several times if you have it. If you do not have it I have posted the reference. It will give fathers name and occupation.

You have the mothers name from 1901 cencus and a sibling too.

Hi

May I suggest you have a look at the wonderful website

www.lan-opc.org.uk

I tapped "Thomas Molyneux" into the search boxes and came up with nearly 700 hits between the 16th and 20th centuries (that's for the whole of the county but you can search on Liverpool alone). There were baptismal records for several Thomases around 1831 but you really need his marriage cert with father's name to get the right one.

Best wishes

Kim in Hull

The site is frequently being updated

1861 census - household transcription
Person: MOLYNEUX, Thomas
Address: 42, Slade Street, Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Thomas Head Married M 30 1831 Carter Liverpool Lancashire
MOLYNEUX, Ann Wife Married F 24 1837 Liverpool Lancashire
MOLYNEUX, Margaret Daughter F 2 1859 Liverpool Lancashire
MOLYNEUX, Matthew Son M 0 (6M) 1861 Liverpool Lancashire

Hi LadyKira
its not these that i have wrong it Anns Father and Mother ,well i think it is
But I will leave it for now as my head is about to burst .I`ll lokk through all of my info again
thankyou so much Margaret
xxx

This is the brother with then in 1901.

He is married with a child


Marriages Jun 1899
Molyneux Thomas W. Derby 8b 761
Wilson Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 761

1911 census - household transcription
Person: MILLS, Ann
Address: 74 Arlington Street Liverpool
MILLS, Henry Head Married M 45 1866 Dock Labourer Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Ann Wife Married 20 years F 39 1872 Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Mary Alice Daughter Single F 19 189 Domestic Servant Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Anna Daughter Single F 16
1895 Bagmender Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Ethel Daughter Single F 15 1896 Housework Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Thomas HenrySon Single M 13 1898 Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Annie Daughter Single F 11 1900 Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, Mary Elizabeth Daughter Single F 6 1905 Liverpool County of Lancashire
MILLS, May Daughter Single F 4 1907 Liverpool County of Lancashire


I a still not sure why you think they do not fit.

Ok stepbackwards a bit.

How did you get to where you are?

Is that marriage absolutly your Ann?

Do you have the marriage cert?

If so please fill out the details.

Ok Please remember ages may can vary a little.
Also they can be misread or misheard.

Thank you LadyKira
1891 CENSUS may not fit as Ann, Married 12 Jan 1890 age20(1870) to henry mills
Do have Ann`s Brother thomas molyneux living with his brother in law in 1901 census
Its their Dad Thomas Molyneux (senior) who I`m looking for
I think I have been researching the wrong Molyneux`s
If I find the correct Thomas Molyneux I may be able to find his wife , then should be on the right track
Margaret Thank you for all your trouble

Marriages Mar 1890 (>99%)

MILLS Henry W. Derby 8b 556
Molyneux Ann W.Derby 8b 556

Also fits witth 1881 that BJ &PH posted

So mother in law was Annie born c1827



1891 census - household transcription
Person: MOLYNEUX, Ann
Address: 25, Teulon Street, Kirkdale, Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Thomas Head Married M 60 1831 Carter Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Ann Wife Married F 64 1827 Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Ann Daughter Single F 30 1861 Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Mary A Daughter Single F 15 1876 Liverpool
MOLYNEUX, Thomas Son M 12 1879 Liverpool

Yes LadyKira
Thats Her and her mother
Her Father could have been dead when she married, so I could see if I can find her mother in 1891 census.


MANY THANKS TO ALL OF YOU
XXXXX