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Poosibly a eureka moment ?????
Thanks to lancashireAnn, I have looked at my possible tenuous link for my Roles' with Francis Roles. The marriage certificate of Charle Harry Roles, my oldest definite ancestor, shows Martha as a spinster so she never actually picked up the roles name by Marriage ( hence the absence of any informationon George Hunter ) On a cencus return for 1851, Francis Roles' father was living with him, also a Francis who was born in Whixhall shropshire. There is also a martha born 1807 who's mother is called Ann, but I can find no connection to Francis and no reason for them to join them in the migration to Manchester, Any ideas ???? As previous, all help fully appreciated.

Gavin

Thanks LancashireAnn,
this pins him down in the area which I am am searching for him, earlier in time, also in the same church as my oldest known relatives movements, Regarding my assunmptions on the surmname,does this seem like a tenuous link or does it look like the right tree to bark up ????? :-S :-S :-S

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1846
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ROLES Francis JACKSON Sarah Manchester Collegiate Church (later Manchester Cathedral) Manchester CATH/55/229

Good evening, could anyone help me with the birth records of Francis below. Have been on the search for George Hunter Roles, and Charles his son as they are as far back as I have got, but his appearance is the first I have come across of the same timing and seems too coincidental to my search to not be linked, isn't it ??????

1861 Census
7 Records found


Piece: RG9/2948 Place: London Road -Lancashire Enumeration District: 21
Civil Parish: Manchester Ecclesiastical Parish: St Paul
Folio: 57 Page: 18 Schedule: 115
Address: 4 Leech St



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
ROLES Francis Head M M 36 Porter & Coal Dealer Lancashire - Manchester
ROLES Sarah Wife M F 36 Domestic Employt Lancashire - Manchester
ROLES John Son - M 10 Scholar Lancashire - Manchester
ROLES Martha Ann Dau - F 6 Scholar Lancashire - Manchester
ROLES James Son - M 4 Scholar Lancashire - Manchester
ROLES Francis Son - M 4m Lancashire - Manchester
KING Job Boardr U M 20 Carter Lancashire - Bradford

Good evening all,
could anybody help in finding either a birth record for George Hunter Roles, or even a marriage to Martha ( surname unknown at present ) sorry. They were living in Salford in 1836 when Charles Harry Roles was born, he was a fishmonger but could not be located in the trade directories of the time. As always, all help much appreciated.


Thanks, Gavin

Gavin,
In your posting of 8 November:

"my mam has the belief that the family orifinated in the dorset area"

Do you know why and how your Mother believes this? Can you try and establish which century?

Searches using the surname of Roles but no Christian name produce results in the south of England for the earlier years. Perhaps general research on the surname would take this further.

The 1841 census will just indicate whether he was local or not, and 'local' often means different areas to different enumerators, so might include all county, might not...........

Hello and apologies for the late response,
Yes, I believe he is too young to be my George, as George and Marthe had Charles, my proven oldest ancestor on this line, in 1829. It was in the hope that his profession of a fishmonger may have singled him out, but there seems to be a prevalence of them at that time in Manchester - assuming that he is still alive in 1841... Bowing to your expertise, is there anything you could recommend regarding how I may be able to track him down ? There is a fishmongers guild I have contacted who may be able to shed light on wether he was a member and where he traded from, but othr than that, I am stumped..

Thanks in advance.

Gav

Hi Gav, I notice Perchino posted a George Roles in 1841 above. Do I take it that's the wrong one? (Too young?)

Census lookup please,
could we find George in the 1841 census please, ( I say we, I have no access ) He was a fishmonger in Salford or posibly Manchester due to the location of greengate, on there it should suggest where he was born.
As again any help is most appreciated....

Gav

Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1856 to 1860
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
ROLES Charles H GOODHEAD Mary Ashton under Lyne, St Michael Tameside CE4/12/379

Could this be George in Dorset:

1841 Census Household Record Address Longfleet
Parish Canford Magna
District Poole, Poole
Administrative County Dorsetshire
Householder 1
Name Richard Grace
Age 75
Estimated Year of Birth 1766
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Birth Place Dorset
Birth County Dorset
Householder 2
Name William Grace
Age 40
Estimated Year of Birth 1801
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Birth Place Dorset
Birth County Dorset
Householder 3
Name Elizabeth Grace
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1811
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation
Birth Place Dorset
Birth County Dorset
Householder 4
Name Mary Roles
Age 12
Estimated Year of Birth 1829
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Dorset
Birth County Dorset
Householder 5
Name George Roles
Age 10
Estimated Year of Birth 1831
Relationship to Head of Household
Occupation Juvenile
Birth Place Dorset
Birth County Dorset

1851?

Name: Mary Goodhead
Age: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Joseph Goodhead
Mother's Name: Hannah Goodhead
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Benton, Staffordshire, England
[Burton On Trent]

Civil parish: Ashton Under Lyne
Ecclesiastical parish: Trinity
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: Brewers Cooper

Registration district: Ashton Under Lyne
Sub-registration district: Hartshead
ED, institution, or vessel: 1r
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 2238
Folio: 463
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Goodhead 32
Hannah Goodhead 37
Mary Goodhead 12
John Goodhead 10
Henry Goodhead 8

Burton upon Trent affected by boundary changes Staffordshire/Derbyshire.
Worth looking (free!!!) on this site for surnames:

South Derbyshire BDM
Baptisms, Burials and Marriages ... Welcome to the South Derbyshire BDM site For Baptism's, Death's and Marriage's taken from Parish and Burial Registers for the ...
southderbyshirebdm.co.uk/home.asp -

Hello again,
yes thats one of theirs, their other Son, Charles Henry, had nine children, only Charles Harry survived providing the offspring of which I hail from, sad story but indicative of how bad things were in Salford at the end of the nineteenth century......

Apologies,
battery on the laptop is going and my lead is at the office, if I disappear before I get an opportunity to reply the I apologise in advance.

Another of Charles children??

Baptisms: 3 Jun 1860 Sacred Trinity, Salford, Lancashire, England
John Roles - Child of Charles Harry Roles & Mary
Born: 6 Mar 1860
Abode: 7 Philip St. Church St.
Occupation: Labourer
Baptised by: A. N. Pitcher Curate
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1864, Page 143, Entry 1139
Source: LDS Film 2356038

Thanks Catherine,
thats got to be the one, especially as Hannah was still living with them in 1871 on the census you found.

Looks like one of Charles children??

Marriage: 30 Sep 1899 St Stephen, Salford, Lancashire, England
Edwin Roles - 23 Warehouseman Bachelor of 15 Hodson Street
Mary Alice Reeves - 20 Spinster of 1 Hodson Street
Groom's Father: Charles Henry Roles, Painter
Bride's Father: William Reeves, Poultry Dealer
Witness: William Roles; Isabella Griffiths, (X)
Married by Banns by: A. W. Davies, Assistant Curate
Register: Marriages 1896 - 1907, Page 75, Entry 150
Source: LDS Film 1408729

Excellent,
Theirs my tenuous fishmonger connection qualified. Is there anything you would suggest as to tracing the fishmonger route for an link back ???
Thanks in advance.