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Have checked Birth Records but none are obvious with Father's name as Frederick. Same with seamens cards

The possible relative
Frederick Martin
Birth Date: 11 Sep 1885
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1974
Age at Death: 88
Registration district: Surrey South Western
Inferred County: Surrey
Volume: 5g
Page: 1446
so you have his birth date (probably).

Only 18 births showing on free bmd, and only 5 with no second names.

You could ask GRO to search for a BC which matches the information you have......assuming grandfather gave true information.

Someone will correct if wrong, but I believe that if you order a cert giving dob of 01/01/1888 (1922-34) and specifying father Frederick Martin, they will search for 3 years until they find one which matches.

The problem comes if the information you supplied isn't absolutely the same as is on a 'near' certificate, ie spelling or Frederick/Sidney as a middle name.

Well Gay - top marks for giving such a comprehensive background.

What searches have you done to find the ancestors?

I am trying to find out details of the birth and family of t my grandfather for whom I cannot find any trace prior to his marriage.

Sidney Martin married Ethel Ede on 17th May 1922 at Stoke church, Guildford, Surrey. At that time he gave his age as 34, a bachelor in the Merchant Services and was living at the same address as his wife 3 Queens road, Guildford. His father Frederick Martin was deceased and an Independent as rank or profession.

The witnesses to the marriage were Fanny Ede mother of Ethel Ede and an Annie J Woods.

Their daughter Barbara Margaret Martin was born on 21st June 1924 and on her birth certificate their address was 41 North East Road, Sholing, Itchen, Hants. At that time Sidney Martin's profession was Wireman GPO.

Ethel Martin Died July-September 1930 age 39 ref 2c80 and following that Barbara was adopted by her sister Mabel and her husband Robert Hill.

Sidney wrote to Mabel and Robert Hill on black outlined paper (so presumably after Ethel's death) from Rosedale, 61 Clifton Road, Regents Park, Southampton and referred to Rose who wanted him to go to Hamble to visit.

On 7th September at the age of 47 Sidney married Florence Edith Fulford a widow. Their address was 61 Clifton Road and he gave his profession as Linesman Engineer (GPO Engineering Dept) and his father Frederick Martin as deceased and commercial traveller.

Sidney Martin died on 8th November 1933 in Southampton (2c31).

Both Ethel and Sidney Martin are buried at Hollybrook Cemetery, Tremona Road, Southampton in grave L10 165 which does not have a headstone

Probate was granted in January 1934 in which his estate devolved to his widow Florence Martin of 61 Clifton Road and Frederick Martin of 16 Moat Drive, Harrow Middlesex a printers warehouseman.

This Frederick Martin moved to Cramhurst Lane, Witley, Surrey during the 1950's and lived there with his wife Alice Sarah, John and Freda. They celebrated their 50th wedding before 7th February 1964 and Frederick Martin died on 10th Februarty 1974 aged 88 and Alice Sarah Martin died 2nd December 1978 at the age of 101 and both are buried in Witley churchyard with these details on their headstone. I remember visiting them as a child and wonder if he may have been Sidney Martin's brother.

I was also told by the son of the person who adopted Barbara that Sidney Martin was a merchant seaman on a White Star liner that was a sister ship of the Titanic.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.