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Gaynor
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27 Dec 2011 15:58 |
Please helpme I am really stuck
I am trying to find the marriage record between John Henry Thomas bn 1877 in Birmingham and Hannah Cecila Mapp bn Dec 1871 in Birmingham this would have been around 1908 as their son William was bn in 1909.
Now both of these had been married before, John had married a Rose Rotherham ( who died in 1974) and Hannah had married a Arthur Hague in 1890.
Now, family say that John and Hannah were married ( and I would love to find the Marriage cert so I can find Johns fathers name) and my hubby’s Grandmother who was married to John and Celia’s son William is still alive age 97 and can still remember John and Cecilia and has agreed John had also married Rose,but does not know why they split up.
Can anyone help me out here or was they infact – living in sin!
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AnnCardiff
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27 Dec 2011 16:05 |
parents: Richard Thomas,? Fanny Thomas
name: John Henry Thomas age: 4 gender: Male birth year: 1877 birthplace: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England relationship to head of household: Son marital condition: Single profession/occupation: Scholar address: 6 Windmill Hill census place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England record type: Household family history library film: 1341712 the national archives reference: RG11 piece/folio: 2975 / 6 page number: 6
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Joy
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27 Dec 2011 16:06 |
Free BMD gives a marriage for Hannah C Mapp and John H Thomas March qr 1918 Birmingham registration district.
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AnnCardiff
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27 Dec 2011 16:06 |
parents: George Mapp,? Elizabeth Mapp
name: Hannah C Mapp age: 9 gender: Female birth year: 1872 birthplace: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England relationship to head of household: Daughter marital condition: Single profession/occupation: Scholar address: Strutley 1 Bournville census place: Kings Norton, Worcestershire, England record type: Household family history library film: 1341705 the national archives reference: RG11 piece/folio: 2945 / 74 page number: 22
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AnnCardiff
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27 Dec 2011 16:08 |
Rosina Rotheram England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 christening: 29 Aug 1869 SAINT THOMAS,?BIRMINGHAM,?WARWICK,?ENGLAND residence: Warwick,? England parents: John Rotheram,? Elizabeth
name: Rosina Rotheram gender: Female baptism/christening date: 29 Aug 1869 baptism/christening place: SAINT THOMAS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND father's name: John Rotheram mother's name: Elizabeth indexing project (batch) number: K04117-2 system origin: England-ODM source film number: 817175 Rose Rotherham England and Wales Census, 1891 birth: Burringham,? Warwickshire census: 1891 England name: Rose Rotherham event: Census event date: 1891 gender: Female age: 49 relationship to head of household: Wife birthplace: Burringham, Warwickshire record type: Household registration district: Stoke Upon Trent sub-district: Shelton ecclesiastical parish: Stoke Upon Trent civil parish: Stoke Upon Trent county: Staffordshire
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AnnCardiff
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27 Dec 2011 16:11 |
??
parents: William Hague,? Mary Ann
name: Arthur Cornelius Hague gender: Male baptism/christening date: 20 Dec 1867 baptism/christening place: ALL SAINTS,BIRMINGHAM,WARWICK,ENGLAND father's name: William Hague mother's name: Mary Ann indexing project (batch) number: C07142-1 system origin: England-ODM source film number: 918919
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Gaynor
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27 Dec 2011 16:14 |
Cheers
Hannahs details are correct - her dad worked at Cadburys in Bounville !!
Now for John it is either Richard and Fanny as parents of Edwin and Mary which is why I need the marraige cert,
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patchem
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27 Dec 2011 16:16 |
John's Father's name will also be on the marriage certificate to Rose, but I cannot see a marriage. Do you know when it is believed to have happened, and how did you know her name? Thanks
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brummiejan
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27 Dec 2011 16:17 |
Joy has found marriage of John and Hannah 1918 though hasn't she? Jan
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Gaynor
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27 Dec 2011 16:22 |
Hi
My husbands Gran remembers both Rose and Hannah and this is recorded in a bible with his childrens names from both ' wives's as here husband use to visit his half siblings - as John was still still single in 1901 census and Hannah married arthur in 1890
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MarieCeleste
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27 Dec 2011 16:23 |
Surely if Hannah had been married to Arthur Hague then her marriage in 1918 should be in the name of Hague and not Mapp?
Although there is this:
Surname First name(s) District Vol Page Marriages Sep 1890 Brookes Constance Annie Aston 6d 597 GROOM Vincent Aston 6d 597 Hague Arthur Aston 6d 597 MAPP Hannah Cecilia Aston 6d 597
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MargaretM
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27 Dec 2011 16:24 |
The 1911 census says they have been married 9 years, 5 children, 3 living, 2 had died.
1911 England Census about John Henry Thomas Name: John Henry Thomas Age in 1911: 35 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1876 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Birmingham County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Street Address: 4 Bk 83 Irving St Birmingham Marital Status: Married Occupation: Cycle Trade Frame Filer Registration district: Birmingham Registration District Number: 384 Sub-registration district: St Martin ED, institution, or vessel: 09 Piece: 18112 Household Members: Name Age John Henry Thomas 35 Hannah Thomas 37 Elsie Clara Thomas 8 John Charles Thomas 3 William Henry Thomas 1 8/12
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brummiejan
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27 Dec 2011 16:34 |
I agree her married name should be used for 2nd marriage, but what are the chances of another couple with these names marrying in Birmingham? I would get the cert and see what it says. Jan
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MargaretM
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27 Dec 2011 16:35 |
Arthur & Hannah in 1891?
1891 England Census about Hannah C Hague Name: Hannah C Hague Age: 19 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1872 Relation: Wife Spouse's Name: Arthur Hague Gender: Female Where born: Birmingham Civil parish: Aston Ecclesiastical parish: St Alban Town: Bordesley County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Deritend ED, institution, or vessel: 16 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 2404 Folio: 71 Page Number: 44 Household Members: Name Age Arthur Hague 30 Hannah C Hague 19 George H Hague 5/12
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MargaretM
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27 Dec 2011 16:41 |
John doesn't seem to be married to a Rose in either 1891 or 1901 censuses.
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MargaretM
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27 Dec 2011 16:44 |
What were the names of John & Rose's children according to the family bible?
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MarieCeleste
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27 Dec 2011 16:47 |
Good chance to be John in 1901, given the occupation compared to 1911:
THOMAS, Richard Head Married M 52 1849 Brass Worker B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Fanny Wife Married F 48 1853 B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, William Son Single M 29 1872 Window Cleaner B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, John Son Single M 25 1876 Cycle Worker B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Emily Daughter Single F 22 1879 Tailoress B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Mary Daughter Single F 20 1881 French Polisher B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Albert Son M 13 1888 B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Lizzie Daughter F 10 1891 B'ham Warwickshire THOMAS, Clara Daughter F 6 1895 B'hamWarwickshire CLAY, William Visitor M 27 1874 Plasterer's Labourer B'ham Warwickshire -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Registration District: Birmingham Civil Parish: Birmingham
Address: 164, Irving Street, Birmingham County: Warwickshire
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Gaynor
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27 Dec 2011 16:48 |
Thanks again
I have PM'd Joy for the BMD details as I still can not find them, not sure why,
I am 100% sure John had 2 partners (Rose and hannah) and the family always refered to Hannah as Hannah Ceceila Mapp, but I do not think anyone knew she had been married before, however I am sure it is the same Hannah that married Arthur Hague in 1890.
I have Hannahs family going back some way, but never found a trace of her marraige to john thomas even though i searched on th surname Mapp and Hague.
Strange but very confussing :-S
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MarieCeleste
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27 Dec 2011 16:51 |
Gaynor, I'm not finding a death of a Rose Thomas in 1974 who would be of a suitable age - unless she remarried?
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MargaretM
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27 Dec 2011 16:51 |
This is getting confusing! This seems to be Arthur & Hannah's son, George in 1901:
1901 England Census about George Hague Name: George Hague Age: 10 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891 Relation: Nephew Gender: Male Where born: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England Civil parish: Kings Norton Ecclesiastical parish: Kings Heath All Saints Town: Kings Heath County/Island: Worcestershire Country: England Registration district: Kings Norton Sub-registration district: Kings Norton ED, institution, or vessel: 19 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 202 Piece: 2805 Folio: 165 Page Number: 30 Household Members: Name Age Victor C Brooks 25 Mary P Brooks 24 Ernest G Brooks 6 Months Gertrude Mapp 26 George Mapp 21 George Hague 10
Gertrude Mapp seems to be sister-in-law and George Mapp brother-in-law, both are single.
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