Find Ancestors

Hi Mgnv

Thanks a million for all that. I am gonna wait til my latest batch of marraige & birth certs are here. Think I have 5 on order now. Then I should start to get places fast I hope.

Thanks for all the details above its a great help.

Danny

Hi Ann

Nothing to report from the Graham line yet I am afraid, I am waiting on certs. I will keep you posted though and Ill pop it up on the Graham Thread.

Danny

Daniel, re: "ho do i get the orignal image"

Go to:
https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/list#page=1®ion=BRITISH_ISLES

As you'll see, some collections have images attached (and usually accessible, but not always - e.g., US 1920)
Some are not indexed - images only - e.g., Durham Bishop's transcripts.
Some are partly indexed, but you usually have to browse images - e.g., the Greater Manchester collection:
England, Lancashire – Cheshire – Yorkshire Parish Registers, 1603-1992

For those with no image, there's usually a film # given - e.g., in Sylvia's last 2 posts):
Source Film Number: 1278807
Source: LDS Film 1526408

One has 2 options - either you can rent this film to view any given LDS family history centre - there's a lookup on their home page - or else you can look up the film # in the LDS library catalog - it will say what records were filmed, and where they were filmed. One can then contact this location - typically, a county records office like the one at Preston - to find abt local access or their policy abt look ups for remotely located folk.

Looking again at Sylvia's 1881:

Just look up a couple of the kids at http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1856
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
KIRKHAM Mark Poulton-le-Fylde Blackpool HOLMES PLF/12/38

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1869
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
KIRKHAM Dorothy Poulton-le-Fylde Blackpool HOLMES PLF/25/11

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1851
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
KIRKHAM George HOLMES Dorothy Old Fylde Register Office or Registrar Attended Blackpool OFY/2/52


Then 1861 from FreeCEN - fortunately it's been transcribed

Piece: RG9/3148 Place: Poulton-le-Fylde -Lancashire Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Gt & Little Carleton Ecclesiastical Parish: Gt & Little Carleton
Folio: 11 Page: 15 Schedule: 75
Address: Silcocks Fold
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
KIRKHAM George Head M M 39 Agricultural Labourer Lancashire - Carleton
KIRKHAM Dorothy Wife M F 33 Lancashire - Salwick
KIRKHAM Jane Dau U F 9 Scholar Lancashire - Carleton
KIRKHAM James Son U M 7 Scholar Lancashire - Preston
KIRKHAM Mark Son U M 5 Scholar Lancashire - Carleton
KIRKHAM Richard Son U M 3 Lancashire - Carleton
KIRKHAM Thomas Son U M 1 Lancashire - Carleton

just a word of warning - the surname of Kirkham was (and still is) a very popular name in the Blackpool and Fylde area.

related thread of Kirkham family and Annie Wheeler

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards.page/board/ancestors/thread/1288138

have you made any progress on the Graham thread Danny as you have not replied to the last couple of posts

The last entry there sylvia would that mean that James was 15/16 when he married Betty Ball?

Do you think this is possible?

Danny

Wow Sylvia this is all brilliant
I find it hard to track things down on family search - ho do i get the orignal image
I will look into the info you have given me and Ill let you know what I uncover

Thanks a mil

Danny

what do you think of this one??

it's from Lancashire OPC (Online Parish Clerks Project)

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html


Marriage: 5 Nov 1811 St Chad, Poulton-le-Fylde, Lancashire, England
James Kirkham - Husbandman of this Parish
Betty Ball - Spinster of this Parish
Witness: John Kirkham; Ellen Kirkham
Married by Licence by: Robert Bowness Curate
Notes: [Bride signed] Elizabeth Ball
Register: Marriages 1791 - 1812, Page 101, Entry 392
Source: LDS Film 1526408




sylvia

George Kirkham was born ca 1826

His siblings Elizabeth and John were born between 1817 and 1821


There are several possibilities for James marriage to an Elizabeth on www.familysearch.org/, including one to an Elizabeth Leech

BUT the dates are wrong ................ unless Elizabeth Leech was a second marriage for James. It does say that she was widowed, but not that he was.


England Marriages, 1538–1973 for James Kirkham

Groom's Name: James Kirkham
Groom's Birth Date:
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age:
Bride's Name: Elizabeth Leech
Bride's Birth Date:
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age:
Marriage Date: 22 Jan 1831
Marriage Place: Blackburn, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name:
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name:
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status:
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Widowed
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00708-5
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1278807
Reference Number:





sylvia

Daniel

trying to check the Leech/Leach link


Is this Richard in 1861??

1861 Census

Name: Richard Kirkham
Age: 3
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Son
Father's Name: George Kirkham
Mother's Name: Dorothy Kirkham
Gender: Male
Where born: Carleton, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Great Carleton and Little Carleton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Fylde
Sub-registration district: Poulton le Fylde

George Kirkham 39 b.ca 1822, Carleton, Lancashire, Ag Lab
Dorothy Kirkham 33 b.ca 1828, Salwick, Lancashire
Jane Kirkham 9
James Kirkham 7
Mark Kirkham 5
Richard Kirkham 3
Thomas Kirkham 1

Address:- Silcocks Fold




Marriages Sep 1851 (>99%)

Holmes Dorothy Fylde 21 345
KIRKHAM George Fylde 21 345



??? George in 1841????

Note that ages on the 1841 Census for people over the age of 15 are usually rounded down to the nearest 5 ...... so James could be any age between 55 and 59 (born between 1792 and 1796)


1841 Census

Name: George Kirkham
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1826
Gender: Male
Where born: Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Poulton Le Fylde
Hundred: Amounderness
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Flyde
Sub-registration district: Poulton le Fylde

James Kirkham 55 b.ca 1796, Lancashire, Farmer
Elizabeth Kirkham 20
John Kirkham 20
George Kirkham 15
Thomas Kirkham 15
William Kirkham 13
Mary Kirkham 11
Ellen Kirkham 9
Agness Kirkham 7

Address:- Whitesides




????? George's baptism????


England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975 for George Kirkham

Name: George Kirkham
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 14 Feb 1823
Baptism/Christening Place: SAINT JOHN-RC,POULTON LE FYLDE,LANCASHIRE,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 13 Feb 1823
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: James Kirkham
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: P01153-1
System Origin: England-ODM
Source Film Number: 599710
Reference Number:



sylvia

Daniel .


I also don't think Richard married again, after I wondered whether he might have, I discovered that he had died by 1911, and the children were spread all around.


I don't think I need to see the certificates, unless you want a second opinion on any of them.



sylvia

There used to be a facility on the home page to add photos but I can't find it now???


Ahhhg - I have it!

Go to the green bar at the top of the message boards and you will see one marked 'Community'. If you hover on here a drop down menu comes on and at the bottom it says 'photos and videos'

Click on this and it opens up the page for you to add them so that everyone can take a look.

If you just want Sylvia to see - you can send her a 'personal message' by clicking on her name and you can attach the scan to the message (somehow??) and send it to her.

Dea Xxx

Sorry Sylviain it was 3am when I was on last night as hooked as I am I had to go to bed.

I'll start with your last post.

I have Mary Grahams - born c.1884 - marraige cert. It says that Richard had passed on at that time. (1903) So don't think he married after Annie Wheeler but can't be sure.

I have bought Richard & Annies Cert its on the way so that should state if he was bachelor or widower as you say.

The info re Annie aged 15 is new to me and a note on Richard as a lodger in 1881, I have speculated a bit further back on the Kirkham side and I think that Richards Grandmother May have been Leech or Leach which is the name of the other lodger in 1881.

I'm thrilled to be getting places, thanks a million.

Danny

P.S. Is there anyway i can show you the certs I have them scanned onto the computer. Can't find where to attach them on here.

You may already have these.


Richard had also died by 1911, and I've just found John, the youngest child, in the St Aloysius Boys Home, Cheetham, age 15. He's shown as a Slipper Maker.

It also seems to have been known as the Fairy Hill Home, Cheetham. ..... but the other name is the one on the actual census image.

Name: John Kirkham
Age in 1911: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1896
Relation to Head: Inmate
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: North Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: Fairy Hill Home Cheetham Manchester
Occupation: Slipper Maker
Registration district: Prestwich
Registration District Number: 467
Sub-registration district: Cheetham




Meanwhile, William and John are living with Mary and her husband ............

1911 Census

Name: William Kirkham
Age in 1911: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1893
Relation to Head: Brother-in-law
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Manchester, Lancashire, England
Civil parish: South Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Street Address: 143 Clowes St West Gorton Manchester
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Inner Tube Borer
Registration district: Chorlton
Registration District Number: 464
Sub-registration district: Ardwick
ED, institution, or vessel: 48
Piece: 23749

Patrick Glennon 32 b.ca 1879, Rosecommon, Athlone, Ireland, Furnaceman
Mary Glennon 32
Kathleen Glennon 12
Mary Glennon 10
Richard Kirkham 21 b.ca 1890, Manchester, Master Slater
William Kirkham 18



Marriages Sep 1898 (>99%)

Glennon Patrick Chorlton 8c 1445
Kirkham Mary Chorlton 8c 1445





sylvia

Richard was unlucky, wasn't he???


Annie died in 1897.


Did he marry a third time?



sylvia

I cannot find Eliza in any previous census


You will have to buy the birth certificate for Mary to prove if I am correct.

Then buy the marriage certificate for Richard and Eliza to prove that ..... that will also give you the name of her father and his occupation.




However, there is no doubt that Annie is the mother of your gt grandfather!

It is just that she was Richard's second wife ...... their marriage certificate should show that he was a Widower at the time.




sylvia

I see that no-one else who has a Public Family Tree on ancestry has spotted that Annie would only have been 15 or so when Mary was born!


In 1881, Annie was a servant in Birmingham ...............

1881 Census

Name: Annie Wheeler
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relation: Servant
Gender: Female
Where born: Bham, Warwickshire, England

Civil parish: Birmingham
County/Island: Warwickshire
Country: England

Street Address: 1 Moat Lane (Birmingham Arms)

Occupation: General Serv

Registration district: Birmingham
Sub-registration district: St Martin

John Thurstan 40 Licensed Victualler
Mary Thurstan 40
Alice M. Thurstan 16
Florence A. Thurstan11
Fanny A. Thurstan 8
Thomas C. Thurstan 14
Thomas Nidge 19 Servant - Barman
Annie Wheeler 18 General Servant




sylvia

I think this is Ricahrd in 1881 ... he has moved to Manchester, and his landlady may have assumed he was born in Blackpool knowing he had moved from there.

He also says he is a Widower. I'm not sure about his occupation ............. by 1891 he is a Grocer.


1881 Census

Name: Richard Kirkham
Age: 24
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Male
Where born: Blackpool, Lancashire, England

Civil parish: Manchester
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 9 Limer St
Condition as to marriage: Widow

Occupation: Slater

Registration district: Manchester
Sub-registration district: St George

Margaret Irving 40
Hugh J. Irving 18
Richard Kirkham 24
Robert Leech 22





sylvia

I think you might have the wrong Eliza there, Daniel


from freebmd

Marriages Mar 1878 (>99%)

Kirkham Richard Fylde 8e 821
PICKERING Eliza Fylde 8e 821



Births Mar 1878 (>99%)

Kirkham Mary Fylde 8e 718



I'm betting that this might be Eliza's death ..............


Deaths Mar 1879 (>99%)

Kirkham Eliza 20 Fylde 8e 584


same death, but from the Lancashire bmds .................

Lancashire Death indexes for the years: 1879

KIRKHAM Eliza 20 Poulton-le-Fylde Blackpool PLF/22/41



we'll have to see if we can find her on an earlier census to see how old she might be. But Richard would only have been around 20 himself



sylvia

Just checked Eliza may have died in Oct 1879 Chorlton?

Danny