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Christina no there is no signature on the report from the Maternity Hospital I dont know if they would have that on record but nothing on the notes they are typed out.

Barbara no Edward wasn't married in England he was married in Australia several times and Barbara I have no idea why it has Edwards middle name as Parke or Park at first I thought it must of been just the writing and was meant to be Frank but it definately looks like Parke so I really dont understand that. So many secrets and so many lies.
So frustrating.
My sister and other family members have tried so many things and have been trying for many years.

Thanks again everyone.

I don't suppose the Maternity Hospital report has the mother's signature on it, does it?

I know the names are different, but was wondering if the writing of that signature was anything like the signature on Ivy Cooper's marriage certificate.

Thank you so much Chris. --same address as 1911 census

I just wondered if he had married in England or Australia I guess that answers that one .


Barbara x :-)

Mrs Edith Louise GAY
Date of departure: 28 February 1928
Port of departure: London
Passenger destination port: Sydney, Australia
Date of Birth: 1872 (calculated from age)
Age: 56
Marital status: Married
Sex: Female
Occupation: Wife
Passenger recorded on: Page 14 of 24
Edward Frank GAY Page 18 of 24 (Upholsterer)
Frank Henry GAY Page 14 of 24 (Gatekeeper)
Ship:
Official Number:
Master's name:
Steamship Line:
Where bound:
Square feet:
Registered tonnage:
Passengers on voyage:
BELTANA
131853
Captain C H Allin
P & O Australia Via The Cape Service
Australia
21064
7974
671

(last address UK, as 62, St. James Road, Holloway N.7)

Chris :)

Hi Louise
Have you any ideas as to why Frank put "Edward Park / e Gay" ( Parke on Ancestry ---but could be just a curl at the bottom of the K ) on the 1911 census.

Could Edward have been born to a Park --Parke---Parker ?

There is this Edwards birth that I can;t find on 1911 census (nor can I find a death index for him )

Births Dec 1908
Parker Edward Hackney 1b 454

I have been looking for a Lily Parker to see if she will tie in with the Gay family---no luck yet but i'll keep trying.

When did your Grandfather go to Australia ?

Barbara x

Just thought I should say thank you to everyone helping me I am very grateful to you all. Just dont know that I am ever going to work it all out though.

Christina that is what we were thinking that she gave the surname Gay as that was the Aunt that was going to raise the baby. The other Aunty that was mentioned in the report was Annie Cecilla Brazier nee Cleak.
Well Christina thats the thing Mrs Brazier was mention and her address which checks out to be Annie the other Aunty it doesn't give her name just an address which we are thinking is Edith but cant confirm.
Emily was Ivy's mother and there were only the three girls in the family.
Made sense to me that seeing Emily was dead that the Aunts took on the role of mother for her.

Jonesey Everyone that knew Edith Louisa said that she would not of taken on anyones baby it had to be someone that was related.
The reason that there was only one child mentioned until 1911 is that he was only born in 1908.

Despite the reported mothers name and age of 16 my inclination would be that the most probable mother of the child would be Edith Louisa Florence Maud Gay. She would have been single and 19 years old at the time.

The basis for this being that in the 1911 census her parents record that their marriage has produced 2 children both of whom are still alive. In earlier (1891 and 1901) census records there is no evidence of their having a second child. It was certainly not unknown for grandparents to pretend that an illegitimate child of one of their own children was their own child. I am assuming therefore that the second child referred to in the 1911 census is indeed Frank Edwin Cecil. The fact that the child also was given the same forename as his father/grandfather (Sic 1911 census) at birth would appear to reinforce the fact that he was closely related to Frank Henry rather than an "Adopted" child.

1891:
Name: Frank Henry Gay
Age: 25
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Edith Louisa Gay
Gender: Male
Where born: Exeter, Devon, England
Civil parish: St Luke
Ecclesiastical parish: St Mary
Town: London
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Holborn
Sub-registration district: City Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 231
Folio: 23
Page Number: 36
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank Henry Gay 25
Edith Louisa Gay 22
Edith Louisa Florence Maud Gay 2

1901:
Name: Frank H Gay
Age: 31
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1870
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Edith L Gay
Gender: Male
Where born: St Sidwells, Devon, England
Civil parish: Islington
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul Balls Pond
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View image
Registration district: Islington
Sub-registration district: Islington, South-East
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 88
Piece: 186
Folio: 12
Page Number: 15
Household Members:
Name Age
Frank H Gay 31
Edith L Gay 30
Edith McGay 12

Hi Louise,

Can you tell us the name of the 2nd aunt mentioned on the Maternity Hospital report please?

I think it's very plausible that Ivy Cooper was the mother, although on both the 1901 and 1911 censuses she is still living with her father. On the 1911 she is a domestic servant living in Fulham, which tallies with Lily Gay being a mother's help in Fulham.

Maybe she gave the surname Gay as she knew her aunt would be adopting him.

Thanks your right Barbara that is her marriage but my Grandfather was born way before she married Handford.
This is all very hard to explain and it is many years of research Ivys mother died and it was thought that her sister Edith took on some of her children so that is why we are thinking it was Gay on the Cert. plus Edith was the one that took on the baby.

marriage ?

Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page

Marriages Mar 1916

Handford Frederick J S --- Cooper ---Fulham 1a 699

Cooper Ivy E E E ----Handford --- Fulham 1a _
==================================================

Death index?

Deaths Dec 1918

Handford Ivy E E --age 25 ---Kensington 1a 199
====================================================


But I'm not sure he would have been registered "Gay" if his mum was "Cooper"

Barbara x

Ivy (the one you have in message above) is who I am thinking can be a possibility for the mother, her mother was Emily Cooper nee Cleak sister of Edith Louisa Gay nee Cleak and sister of Annie C Brazier nee Cleak.
Ivy married years later to John Handford so when she died she was Ivy Handford she was only in her 20's when she died.

Is this the 'aunt'?

Births Mar 1893 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cooper Ivy Elsie E E Chelsea 1a 421

I can't see a death to match the birth info

That is another possibility we had thought of that Edith's daughter was his mother but she would of been older than 16.
I have the notes from the home my grandfather was born that tells you her age.
Frank didn't have any sisters young enough your right.
This has been kept a secret from the family even Edward my Grandfather. Since doing my family history and making contact with distant relatives they all seem to know something about my grandfather being adopted.
It is all so frustrating and I will probably never find out but I am not going to give up.

Could he not be Edith the daughters child?

If he had the surname Gay and was an aunts child, surely it would be one of Franks sisters? not that I can see one who was young.

Where have you found out the age of the mother being 16?

??

1911 census - household transcription
Person: GAY, Edward Park
Address: 62 St James Road Lower Holloway N


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GAY, Frank Henry Head Married M 42 1869 Furniture Dealer St Ludwells Exeter VIEW
GAY, Edith Wife Married
23 years F 39 1872 Assisting In Business Worcestershire VIEW
MEEK, Florrie Daughter Married F 22 1889 Marylebone VIEW
MEEK, George Son In Law Married M 25 1886 Porter Railway Co Fulham VIEW
GAY, Edward Park Son M 2 1909 Hackney VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2 children both living for Frank and Edith

Florrie and George married 8 months No children

Births Mar 1889 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gay Edith Florence M Marylebone 1a 590


1901 census - household transcription
Person: GAY, Edith L
Address: 39, Clephane Road, Islington



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

GAY, Frank H Head Married M 31 1870 Fruiterer & Greengrocer
St Sidwells
Devonshire VIEW
GAY, Edith L Wife Married F 30 1871
St Sidwells
Devonshire VIEW
GAY, Edith M Daughter Single F 12 1889
London VIEW

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No. 188
25/11/1908
Maternity Hospital
271 Mare Street (could be Marie not sure)
Hackney
Frank Edwin Cecil
Boy
No Fathers name
Mother Lily Gay (Mothers Help) dont know what that means
61 Chealton Road Fulham ( that is how the street name is spelt on the cert, I know it is spelt a little different from that)
informant Lily Gay mother
Maternity Hosptial and address of hospital again.
Registered 11/12/1908
CHayner Registrar.

My grandfather was know to us as Edward Francis (Frank) Gay so they must of changed his name.
He was never able to find his certificate when he was alive and probably for that reason.
Thanks Reggie

Can you tell us the exact wording on the birth cert, please...in all columns.

Christina no my Grandfather was born in England he died in Australia though.
Thanks for your help.

Sorry Reggie I understand that about the woman voting I should of really said Uncle as the Aunt had died by then.
This is really hard to explain but we think my grandfather was adopted, he was brought up by Edith Louisa Gay nee Cleak and Frank Henry Gay.
I have records from his birth as the mother was only 16 at the birth of my grandfather. The records say that one Aunt brought her to the place he was born and another Aunty took the baby to give her a second chance and on the record it gives both Auntys address hence me looking to see who lived at that address. I have found the other address but cant find this one.
I am thinking that the mother may have been Edith's sisters childs as her mother (the aunt) had died. Her name was Ivy Elsie Emily Edith Cooper.
I know this is very confusing.
Thanks anyway for your help.