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Hi all
I am the one who was looking back in 2005 and eventually gave up so I am delighted to come across this discussion.

My research with descendants showed that definitely the three girls were sisters and that there was a close connection to Patrick but no-on else could shed light on the Irish end.

Tania - I am surprised and excited that another Patrick with the same parents has surfaced in Qld as that should definitely provide more info.

Maura - do you know how far that graveyard is from Belfast as there is a chance I may be able to visit there soon.-it sounds helpful

I am thinking now that Patrick may have been the illegimiate son of Rachel's older brother and that he was raised by an aunt and uncle or grandparents until he finished school The description as farmers in the 1901 census is consistent with PAtrick saying his father was a farmer.

PAtrick's wedding certififate in 1919 says his parents are deceased.

I am not surprised at the different names on certificates of Margaret and MAry Ann as there are differences between their marriage and death certificates most of which could be accounted for by sloppy reporting or not understanding accents.

There was also a tendency to use middle names so I have assumed that the father was either Patrick Arthur or Arthur PAtrick

Tania, yes I got the other Patrick's death from QLD BMD's


Elaine, Dungannon about 40 miles from Belfast, Donaghmore is about 5 miles outside Dungannon. Donaghmore village also has a heritage centre, they should be able to point you in the right direction of the graveyard. I don't know if you already know this, but go to GRONI in Belfast 1st as they hold all BMD's from 1864, noncatholic marriages from 1845. Before this time frame you have to go to PRONI at the Titantic Quarters, they hold church records.

Thanks Maura

Given that Donaghmore is so close to Dungannon it is sounding like some connection is there. I will certainly try to visit that heritage centre. Are there other heritage centres around Dungannon that would be worth a visit. I'd really like to know what it was like in that area i the late1800s

I did contact Proni and Groni some years ago without any success but if I can get there I will try to visit now that we have a bit more to go on.

Tania - I'll wait t hear how you go with that death certificate of Patrick in Qld as that sounds like a good lead.

Thanks Maura for your help.
I've ordered the death certificate of the "other" Patrick McKenna. I'll wait with interest now to see what further information I can glean.

Found these centre,
The Heritage Centre, 26 Market Square, Dungannon, Co. Tyrone

Benburb Valley Heritage Centre
89 Miltown Road
Tullymore Etra
Benburb
Dungannon
Tyrone
BT71 7LZ
United Kingdom

COALISLAND HERITAGE CENTRE
LINESIDE, COALISLAND
BT71 4LP DUNGANNON, COUNTY TYRONE

Your best bet is to start at GRONI, you can book the research room for a day for £14, you get to look at two records for that, but you can do as many index search as you want. They upgraded there system now, so you can search for birth with mothers surnames, marriages also with the spouse name, deaths are much harder to find, they can be costly to find if you have a common name. If you want to view a full record after the 1st 2 free one they charge £4 a record

Thanks Maura
I will try to get to those heritage centres as they may well have interesting books on the era as well. Does Groni have more than you can get on Irish Roots which I have just joined (but haven't paid anyting yet as it looks as if it could get quite expensive quickly).

Also, I thought I would explore that 1901 census record more to see if I can find a link with another part of the family. Maybe Matilda and John will appear on the 1911 census.

Thanks Tania for ordering that certificate -look forward to what it says.

GRONI & Roscommon are the only places that have all BMD's that where registered in Ireland. Roscommon only has N.Ireland records up until 1922. rootsireland.ie do have a large amount of church records, but they don't have them all, plus it only a transcript. If you want to order a BMD before 1922 order from Roscommon as you can get a photocopy of a cert for around 5 euro, as GRONI charge £14 a cert

http://www.groireland.ie/

Thanks Maura - I will definitely try to get there. We will be in the UK early June

The plot thickens . . . The "other" Patrick (son of Arthur McKenna and Margaret McGuggan of Tyrone) was born in 1852 in Tyrone and came to Australia in about 1883. He was a labourer who never married or had any children and died April 1925 in Queensland (Dunwich).

I feel there must be a connection, as the Patrick I am trying to trace is also born in Tyrone, son of Arthur McKenna & Margaret McGuigan, but almost 40 years later in 1890, so he obviously cannot be a brother.

I am yet to find any trace of the couple Arthur McKenna and Margaret McGuigan in Tyrone.

An exciting update.
I have researched the "other" Patrick McKenna who another genesreunited member kindly found. He was Patrick McKenna, born 1852 in Tyrone to Margaret McGuggan & Arthur Mckenna, emigrated to Brisbane in 1883 and was admitted to a local asylum in 1902 where he died without ever marrying or having children in 1925. He had 3 sisters, Margaret, Rachel and Mary Ann. This solves one mystery and raises more questions about "my" Patrick McKenna who can't possibly be another sibling, as he is about 40 years younger than the "other" Patrick who would be his older brother.
Therefore, "my" Patrick McKenna born in Dungannon in 1890 cannot possibly be the son of Margaret McGuigan and Arthur McKenna as his death certificate states.
So who were his parents??
My guess is that he may be the illegitimate son of Mary Ann McKenna (b 1873 Tyrone) as she is the eldest sister at the time of Patrick's birth.
I cannot find any record of a Patrick McKenna born to a Mary Ann however, although the online sources don't seem to be as available for Ireland as for the rest of the UK.
Any suggestions gratefully received.

Tania, the Patrick that died in 1925, couldn't be the brother of Mary Ann, Margaret & Rachel. From the headstone inscription I give you, Patrick father died in 1858 so he could'nt of fathered the 3 girls, as you say Mary was the oldest of the girls and she was born in 1873.

That's a good point Maura. Thanks again for your interest.
I have tracked down the Patrick McKenna (born 1852) who died in the Benevolent Asylum near Brisbane in 1925 by going to the Queensland State Archives and looking at his file. In his admission notes, it clearly states he had 3 siblings, Mary Ann, Rachel and Maggie who were living in or near Rockhampton (which is consistent with other information I have on the girls). No other siblings are mentioned in his record. I can only presume that maybe we have the wrong headstone, as I have the 3 girls death certificates and they all have a version of a Patrick or Arthur Mckenna as their father and a version of Margaret McGuigan as their mother. Of course, I'm very happy to hear if you can work it any other way. I'm finding it quite a puzzle.

It will interesting to see if Elaine comes up with anything on her trip to Ireland.

Well if it's the wrong headstone, then there's 3 Patrick McKenna's in Queensland from Tyrone with a father Arthur

Hi,
I found going through www.familysearch.org
Rachel McKenna born 2nd Feb. 1866 Coagh Tyrone. Father James Mother Isabella Devlin, as Matilda McKenna aged 60 years with a Patrick aged 11 years at the general area was just wondering if that Patrick is the right one and Rachel was his Aunt.
Also a Mary Ann McKenna born 24th March 1877 Moymore Father Arthur but mother Margaret McVeigh.
Just a thought.
Good Luck,
Betty.

Hi all

Now that Tania has checked the Patrick (d 1925) records I see the situation as follows:

We have two conflicting bits of evidence re Partick (b1890)::

1. Patrick (b1890) listed Arthur McKenna and Margaret McQuigan as his deceased parents on his marriage certificate and they are listed similarly on his death records. The latter was almost certainly sourced by his son Frank from the earlier marriage certificate and therefore brings no extra credibility. This would make Patrick the sibling of MaryAnn, MArgaret and Rachel and now ith Tania's latest info, Patrick (d1925).

2. Patrick (b1890) lists Rachel McCarthy (nee McKenna) as his next of kin and aunt on his enlistment papers in 1915 when he was a healthy 25 yr old.
This would make him the grandson of Arthur and Margaret.

I am inclined to believe the latter:and offer the follwoing possible explanations:

Patrick (b1890) is almost certainly the same Patrick found by others on the 1901 census living with a widowed aunt Matilda and cousin John just outside Dungannon and working as a farm servant. He had probably just finished school as we know he could read and write (from shippinng records)

Patrick (d1925) is almost certainly is the brother (or at least step-brother) of the three girls in Rockhampton and an uncle of Patrick (b1890). The State archive records are very reliable and it would be too much of a coincidence to list them in the Rockhampton area in Central Queensland.

If Patrick (d1925) is the older brother, then there is quite a gap between him and MaryAnn which suggetss there are other siblings in between. Patrick could be the son of one of these siblings who died in childbirth, died early or was unmarried. This may be MaryAnn but it could be another one again. The aunt Matilda supports the theory that tjhere were other siblings. I found a death of Matilda McKenna in 1902 in Omagh - could be she was sickly and hence Patrick couldnt' stay there any longer

I am not able to explain the gravestone reference. I feel there is a connection somewhere but it is unlikely though not impossible that Patrick (d1925) was able to afford to do that on a labourers wage and as Maura notes, there are dates which can't match.

Am not sure where to go from here but I have now arrived in England and intend to head over to Ireland in early June to visit some of the heritage centres and to try to find that gravestone as there may be others in the same cemetry that give a clue. There are quite a number of McKennas who arrived in Queensland so it could be a different family but the McGuigan bit is too tempting to not believe there is a connection somewhere..

Maura - I may have missed this but do we know when the gravestone was erected? This might give us a better clue as to whether Patrick (d1925) erected it as it woul dneed to have been before he went into the Dunwich asylun as it was for people who couldn;t afford to look after themselves or who were too ill.

Would welcome any comments on my thoughts and where to go from here.

Sorry Elaine no date when it was erected.

Hi all
I spent yesterday at Groni with no dramatic results. Howver, I did confirm that Matilda McKenna died in 1902 (was foud dead at home) aged 62. She was the widow of Franics McKenna, a farmer, who died in 1895 aged 68. As welll as their bachelor son John they also had at least one other son, Michael who was the informant at his father's death.

I could not find a marriage for Francis and Matilda but it could have been before the 1864 cut-offs for records.

Still could not find birth of our Patrick, 1890 but you need a surname to do a search and it could have been registered under a different name if he was illegimiate or not registered at all if they were out on a farm.

I am now leaning towards the fact that Patrick was the son of another member of the family who died soon after his birth or illegitimate and then was looked after by aunts or grandparents until he left for Australia.

I am wondering if his mother was Matilda's sister.

Interestingly, Patrick named his son Francis.

Am hoping to find the gravestone today and am still deciding whether there is anything to be gained at Proni. I have two more days here. Any suggestions?

You could find his baptism at proni, they hold Roman Catholic church records for Tyrone

http://www.proni.gov.uk/index_to_roman_catholic_records-6.pdf