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I have been in touch with Angie for most of the week. She now has her 2 x gt grandad's birth cert and told me that it said the mother was Ann Key late teens formerly Wright. We worked out that Ann would have been 34 when she had John Key 1873 so I asked her to send it to me. she did so today and I think Ann was married to a Tears and had the first child and possibly the second by him. I found a marriage of a Charles John Tears to an Ann Wright in 1860 I think but I can't for the life of me find the hubby Charles John Tears on any census or in the death records.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about Charles John Tears
Name: Charles John Tears
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1860
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 308

Charles John Tears Jul-Aug-Sep 1860 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

Ann Wright Jul-Aug-Sep 1860 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

Angie I think you need to buy this certificate and see who William's father was and his occupation. It will also tell you if William was single on his marriage as there is a child Charles who is down as son before they married.He was 13 years older than Ann too. I cannot find an Ann Wilson born 1839 Yorkshire but on one census she says she was born in Ireland. It will also tell you her fathers name and occupation hopefully. I cannot find an Ellen Sallis, Tallis, Fallis on any other census but if she is Ann's sister she too could have been married as there was nothing on the census we found her on to give us any indication whether married widowed or single.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about William Key
Name: William Key
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1866
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 296


William Key Jan-Feb-Mar 1866 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

Anne Wilson Jan-Feb-Mar 1866 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

I also see you have a tree on Ancestry.

Had a message from Angela yesterday.

Her grandfather was Sydney Key 1899 Hull Yorkshire.

Father John Key 1873 Hull Yorks.

1901 England Census
about John Key
Name: John Key
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Rose Key
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sculcoates
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Sculcoates
Sub-registration district: West Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 31
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 94
Piece: 4495
Folio: 113
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
John Key 28
Rose Key 23
Amy Key 5
Sydney Key 2
Sarah Walker 22 Sister in Law Hull Yorks.

1881 England Census
about John Key
Name: John Key
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Ann Key
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Kingston-Upon-Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Margarets Terrace
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Scholar

Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 63
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4777
Folio: 10
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Key 42
William Key 15
Emma Key 12
John Key 8 ***************
Fredk. Key 5
George Key 3
Ellen Fokes 35
William Hodgson 23

JOHN HENRY KAY Pedigree
Male

Birth:
Christening: 12 MAY 1873 Stannington, Yorkshire, England


Parents:
Father: WILLIAM KAY Family
Mother: ANN ELIZABETH


Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about John Key
Name: John Key
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1898
Registration district: Hull
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 516

John Key Apr-May-Jun 1898 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

Rose Walker Apr-May-Jun 1898 Hull Yorkshire East Riding

1911 England Census
about Sydney Key
Name: Sydney Key
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sculcoates
County/Island: Yorkshire-East Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Grotto Square Mason Street
Registration district: Sculcoates
Registration District Number: 521
Sub-registration district: West Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Piece: 28730
Household Members: Name Age
John Key 38
Rose Key 33
Amy Key 15
Sydney Key 12 ************
John Henry Key 5
Rose Ann Key 15/12

1911 England Census
about Sydney Key
Name: Sydney Key
Age in 1911: 12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation to Head: Son
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Hull, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Sculcoates
County/Island: Yorkshire-East Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 4 Grotto Square Mason Street
Registration district: Sculcoates
Registration District Number: 521
Sub-registration district: West Sculcoates
ED, institution, or vessel: 19
Piece: 28730
Household Members: Name Age
John Key 38
Rose Key 33
Amy Key 15
Sydney Key 12 ***********
John Henry Key 5
Rose Ann Key 15/12

I child of this family had died 4 living.

I have to go out but will look in later.

Is this your gt gt grandfather and his family?

1901 England Census
about William Edwin Key
Name: William Edwin Key
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1866
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Annie Key
Gender: Male
Where born: Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Holy Trinity
Ecclesiastical parish: St Jude
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:Dock Labourer


Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 6
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 187
Piece: 4502
Folio: 109
Page Number: 26
Household Members: Name Age
William Edwin Key 35
Sarah Annie Key 35
Norah Key 14
Ethel Key 12
Gertrude Key 9
Rosalie Key 7
Gladys Key 5
Albert Edward Key 4
Horace Key 2

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about William Edwin Key
Name: William Edwin Key
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1884
Registration district: Sculcoates
Inferred County: Yorkshire East Riding
Volume Number: 9d
Page Number: 278

Sarah Annie Hudson Apr-May-Jun 1884 Sculcoates Yorkshire East Riding

William Edwin Key Apr-May-Jun 1884 Sculcoates Yorkshire East Riding

I wrote this to Angela and then got this reply.


From: Mel Fairy Godmother

11:59 AM




Hi Angela,

Can you at least give us your grandfathers name and year of birth please, and where he was born. We can then try and trace him back for you. It would give us a better picture of where we are going.

Mel

Her reply

Hi Mell I did that in my first message, it is William Key, 1801 born in York, William is my 4 x grandad, if this is the one you mean, this is the one I am trying to trace his parents, his wife is Sarah b/ about 1811
Angie

Angela, it might be easier for people to help, if you entered a small family tree with later relatives, so that helpers can work out for themselves where you have found your information, together with the proof of information -jl

Hi Mel
It could be Tallis or Fallis.
I have come to a full stop now we really do need Angela's grandparents names to really do this justice but it is very gripping I would love to find the outcome. I hate a mystery
Regards
Barbara

Are good find Barbara.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ellen the sister is down as born Yorkshire but it dos'nt say if she is married, widowed or what! Could that also be Tallis???????????????

This could be William's death
Deaths Mar 1879 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Key Harry 0 Sculcoates 9d 104
Key William 52 Hull 9d 173

It could well be that William Key 1801 was not from York. People who lived in a town or village did'nt get parish relief if they came from another place. In some cases those who said they were from a certain village and fell on hard times were sent back to where they did come from.You only got Parish Relief if you were from that area of the church. Others just put the last place they came from and not where they were actually born.

I am still interested to know where your cousin got the name of Ann Sallis from? There are only a couple of people with that name anyway.

Hi All
Please have a look at the original for this 1881 census I have a feeling this is where the Sallis has come from. I think it is the same family as 1871 census.
Regards
Barbara
Ann Key
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Killarloo, Ireland

Civil parish: Kingston-Upon-Hull
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 8 Margarets Terrace
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Net Maker

Registration district: Hull
Sub-registration district: Myton
ED, institution, or vessel: 63
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4777
Folio: 10
Page Number: 14
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Key 42
William Key 15
Emma Key 12
John Key 8
Fredk. Key 5
George Key 3
Ellen Fokes 35
William Hodgson

If William c1826 is your 3 x gt grandad who was your 2 x gt grandad? Or even your grandad?

You must have some idea. We cannot help properly if you don't give us something concrete to go on.

It is not often that all the helpers are stumped but we have to get to know the families first by occupations and siblings and so on.

Afterall we are working blind as we don't have your tree to look at and can only go by what you tell us.

We are all very willing to help you but we must have some definate fact somewhere down the line to work from.

Mel

Hi Angela,
That's OK but who is the last person in your tree that you have proof of???

Kellie

I have no birth certificates for them

There must be something wrong somewhere for any of us not to find any info you are giving us.

Can you please let us know what your grandfathers name was and year of birth and occupation.

There is a tree on Ancestry That has a William Key 1827 married to an Ann Wilson.

HI Angela,
What is the last "positive" bit of information you have on this family?

A child to William and Ann etc....anything so we can make sure we can find the 'right' people..

Kellie

Thanks for you help everyone x

Ann Sallis is on my tree but with a question mark, most of my info came from my 2nd cousin as he has the same info,