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I was looking at birthplaces that you already have connections with such as Stitchel, Roxburghshire.

No, I don't think it's any of these. I found my MAIN target about two years ago so I don't remember exactly but pretty sure it's not these. I still have all the original searches stored on Scotlands People (fabulous site BTW) so I can go back and look however i'm sure we've cracked the problem.

Now I have to explain to my relatives why we have "Sassenachs" in the family...oh the shame o' it ...Ha Ha Ha.

Again many thanks to all, and if you have any Scottish searches, give me a call and i'll see what I can do.

Name: Christian Main
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 07 Oct 1832
Baptism/Christening Place: , KELSO, ROXBURGH, SCOTLAND
Birth Date: 17 Aug 1832
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Andrew Main
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Margaret Paterson
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C11793-8
System Origin: Scotland-VR
Source Film Number: 1067947
Reference Number: 2:18D11RV

1861 Address: Overtown, Smailholm
MAIN, Margaret Head Widow F 62 1799 Pauper (Weaver's Widow)
Stitchel, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Elsbeth Daughter Unmarried F 35 1826 Ag Lab
Kelso, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Christina Daughter Unmarried F 28 1833 Domestic Serv
Kelso, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Agnes Grand Daughter Unmarried F 17 1844 Ag Lab
Kelso, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Robert Grand Son M 13 1848 Ag Lab
Roxburgh, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, James Grand Son M 8 1853 Scholar
Earlstone, Berwickshire
N/A
MAIN, Euphemia Grand Daughter F 4 1857
Smailholm, Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Andrew Grand Son M 0 (9 MO) 1861
Smailholm, Roxburghshire

1841 Address: Roxburgh Street East Side, Kelso
WALACE, John M 25 1816 Labourer Scotland
N/A
WALACE, Jane F 20 1821 Roxburghshire
N/A
WALACE, James M 2 1839 Roxburghshire
N/A
WALACE, Sarah F 0 (3 MONTHS) 1841 Roxburghshire
N/A
BLOOK, William M 35 1806 Mason J Roxburghshire
N/A
BLOOK, Isabella F 35 1806 Roxburghshire
N/A
BLOOK, John M 9 1832 Roxburghshire
N/A
BLOOK, Elisabeth F 2 1839 Roxburghshire
N/A
BLOOK, Margaret F 4 1837 Roxburghshire
N/A
BOWHILL, James M 38 1803 Shoe M Roxburghshire
N/A
BOWHILL, Isabella F 47 1794 Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Andrew M 51 1790 Gardener Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Margaret F 40 1801 Scotland
N/A
MAIN, Janet F 14 1827 Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Margaret F 10 1831 Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Christian F 8 1833 Roxburghshire
N/A
MAIN, Isabella F 5 1836 Roxburghshire

I wonder if this is her.

1851 Address: Rachelfield, Rachelfield, Earlston
MAIN, Margaret Head Widow F 51 1800 Farm Serv
Stitchell, Roxburgh N/A
MAIN, Elspeth Daughter Unmarried F 25 1826 Farm Serv
Kelso, Roxburgh
N/A
MAIN, Christian Daughter Unmarried F 18 1833 Farm Serv
Kelso, Roxburgh N/A
MILNE, Agnes Grand Daughter F 7 1844 Kelso, Roxburgh N/A
WEDDELL, William Grand Son M 6 1845 Kelso,
Roxburgh N/A
GIBSON, Robert Grand Son M 3 1848 Kelso, Roxburgh

Aaahhhhh! The plot thickens! So young Charles born at Renwick and christened at Berwick which, not incidentally, is where naughty Charles parents John and Elizabeth were married. Probably some family still living there while they were farming in Scotland.

Great. So how does Christina Main (In Charles juniors Marr Cert) become Christina Kidd (in Charles juniors Death cert)...or Vice Versae? There's got to be a link with all those "Kidds" in Renwick. It would seem from the christening that it was Christina Main who presented the child as his surname is hers, so at some time in the near future (before the 1871 Scottish census) the child was adopted (unofficially as was the way in those days) by the Rutherfords.

Just for the record the Rutherfords were very much a Border family. I have a map showing dozens of properties and villages they held property in. Real Mafiosos!

Well done safc!

Name: Charles Rutherford Main
Gender: Male
Baptism/Christening Date: 11 Sep 1862
Baptism/Christening Place: Berwick-upon-Tweed, Northumberland, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Christina Main
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: I02192-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1469108
Reference Number: item 1 p 110

I think I have a link with a Christina Main who lived very close to where Charles worked just BEFORE going to England. She lived near Barns Roxburghshire and was 21 (UNM) while Charles was 23 (UNM). I surmise she accompanied him to England and had the child there, subsequently remaining in England while he returned to his family - his sister (Catherine, 23 UNM) caring for the child until he married (Mary Thomson at Stichill) six years later and had second son James. If she married someone called KIDD it would all tie in.

Whatever, it is a tangled tale and i'm satidfied that the birthplace is known even though there are mysteries. Now to find the illegitimate children of my great Aunt Agnes who was busy in East Lothian in the early 20th century. A bit of a girl so i'm told!

There are some mains though, e.g.:

1871 England Census

Name: George Histop Main
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1841
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Norham
Town: Norham
County/Island: Northumberland
Country: England
Registration district: Berwick
Sub-registration district: Norhamshire

George Histop Main 30
Jane Davidson 16

This must be his birth in that case:

Births Sep 1862 (>99%)
MAIN Charles Main Berwick 10b 324

Jan

Another Twist in the tale....when illegitimate Charles Rutherford married my Ggrandmother he put his mothers name as Christina MAIN, not Christina KIDD. On his death cert it appears as Christina KIDD so where did the change come from?

Is there a Christina MAIN in Renwick around 1863, who might subsequently have married a KIDD?

All help to date much appreciated.

I will definitely be studying this more closely.

At the moment the possibilties are that the birth was not registered and the senior Rutherfords - who were getting on a bit and had a single daughter,Catherine, were quite happy to take the child.

I'm curious that Charles (Senior) went so far to work, though things were not too good for Ag. Labs round the last quarter of the 19th century. The fact that I had the name KIDD, and the number in the region of Renwick suggests that Christine/a did exist. There is always the possibility that she died in childbirth which would be awful. I will be looking for the possibility that he DID bring her back with him. He later married another woman who mothered his second son, James. On that marriage cert he's shown as a bachelor so whether the mysterious Christine survived and came to Scotland or not, it seems he never married her.

The younger Charles (born in England) went on to Marry my Great Grandmother Janet Bald who was, apparently, a sainted lady.

The stuff of novels (and Soap Operas lol). Malc.

Just one point- if Catherine was written in poor handwriting it could look like Christine.

P.S. I note the 1871 entry for Charles juniors mother as Catherine Rutherford. I don't think this is true as I don't think Catherine ever left the country whereas Charles apparently did. I believe they gave Catherine as the mothers name to cover up an illegitimate birth and absoption into the Rutherfords in Scotland.

Marvellous! Thanks to all of you. In summary, my Relation Charles who was a ploughman had moved a long way (relatively for those days though the trains were in operation at that time) from Roxburghshire to North Cumbria. With numerous KIDD families in the area it seems he "met up" with one and she had the child who they also named Charles. They did not marry apparently however he returned to Scotland with Charles Junior.

All of the census information for Scotland is correct.

The doubt over "Christine/a" is not necessarily important. The mothers name was reported by Charles half brother James when both were elderly. I'm happy that the Surname is at least highly probable.

I'll study all the above with interest. Cheers. Malcolm.

1861 Address: Newtown, Eccles
RUTHERFORD, John Head Married M 68 1793 Ploughman
Stitchell
Roxburghshire
N/A
RUTHERFORD, Betty Wife Married F 63 1798
Roxburgh
Roxburghshire
N/A
RUTHERFORD, Charles Son Unmarried M 23 1838 Ploughman
Roxburgh
Roxburghshire
N/A
RUTHERFORD, Cathrine Daughter Unmarried F 19 1842 Ag Lab
Kelso
Roxburghshire

Household transcription
1881 Address: Orange Lane, Eccles
RUTHERFORD, Charles Head Widower M 40 1841 Agricultural Labourer
Roxburgh
Roxburghshire
N/A
RUTHERFORD, Charles Son Unmarried M 18 1863 Agricultural Labourer
England
N/A
RUTHERFORD, James Son M 9 1872 Scholar
Stitchel
Roxburghshire
N/A
RUTHERFORD, Catherine Sister Unmarried F 36 1845 House Keeper
Kelso
Roxburghshire

1871
Name: Charles Rutherford
Age: 8
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1863
Relationship: Grandson
Mother's Name: Catherine Rutherford
Gender: Male
Where born: England
Registration number: 737
Registration district: Eccles
Civil parish: Eccles
County: Berwickshire
Address: Wormerlaw
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 1
Household schedule number: 1
Line: 4
Roll: CSSCT1871_174
Household Members: Name Age
John Rutherford 78
Elizabeth Rutherford 73
Catherine Rutherford 27 - Kelso
Charles Rutherford 8



Catherine matches the 1881 as sister of Charles