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:-D :-D :-D

I think it's probably best if I come back to this thread on Thurs when I'm back home and have all the information to hand. The 'boy' was really struggling to read the writing on the certificate.

I am not sure about how this fits in but there are 2 other Isaac Moores connected with Spon Lane you may need to be aware of.


http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,325605.msg2944189.html

I used both but mainly FMP. I find the presentation easier to read.

Was there an address on the certificate?

No real luck with the witnesses, the one he could read was Mary Ann Lloyd, Charlotte's half sister and the other was a George Henry 'something beginning with P'.

LK The 2 other Blizzard census returns that you found featuring William and Elizabeth are both Charlotte's siblings, I'm not sure about the others.

I'm having a problem finding the Irish William Moore on Ancestry, did you use FMP?

More food for thought - I'll have a proper look tomorrow.

I'll also get in touch with my son and see if he can read the names of the witnesses on the Moore/Blizzard marriage certificate. Typically after a 3 week wait the cert arrived the day after we left for England.

I've very grateful for all your efforts on my behalf

http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=36173

The area in the north-west of the former borough, known as West Smethwick by 1857, (fn. 82) developed in the 19th century as a distinct community focused on the Chance glass-works, with shops around the southern end of Spon Lane. (fn. 83) Spon Lane itself is mentioned in 1694. (fn. 84) In the later 18th century there were houses along the Birmingham-Dudley road (the present Oldbury Road) and several small farms, some of which survived until the later 19th century. (fn. 85) Blakeley Hall farm, said to have belonged to Halesowen abbey (Worcs.), lay on the north side of the main road, between Spon Lane and the Oldbury boundary, and in 1810 was 35 a. in extent. (fn. 86) Holt Hill farm, the home of the Birch family in the earlier 18th century, covered 79 a. in the Roebuck Lane area in 1780. (fn. 87) A farm on the west side of Holly Lane can also be traced from the earlier 18th century. (fn. 88) The Swan inn, which stands on the corner of Holly Lane and Oldbury Road, apparently existed by 1733, (fn. 89) although the present inn dates from the 20th century. The earliest surviving building is a late-18th-century house, no. 493 Oldbury Road, by 1971 used as commercial premises; near by on either side of the road there are some terraced cottages of the earlier 19th century. By 1810 part of Blakeley Hall farm had been divided into building plots, and several cottages were subsequently erected there. (fn. 90) The development of the area, however, began with the opening of Thomas Shutt's glass-works beside the Birmingham Canal on part of the farm apparently in 1815; the works was bought by R. L. Chance in 1822. (fn. 91) By the mid 1840s there were about 300 people living in Scotch Row in some 40 cottages belonging to the works. (fn. 92) George Street on the east side of Spon Lane existed by the mid 1840s, and by 1857 the area was built up as far as West Street. (fn. 93) With the completion of the Birmingham, Wolverhampton & Stour Valley railway through Smethwick in 1852 a station was provided in Spon Lane. (fn. 94) When St. Paul's Church was opened in 1858, it was stated to have been built for the needs of a population of over 2,700 in the Spon Lane area. (fn. 95)

Posting this one although not born in Ireland.
Just hold for now
1871 Address: Spon Lane, West Bromwich
12 BATTS, Willm Head M 75 1796 Oxfordshire View
12 BATTS, Edwn Son M 43 1828 Oxfordshire View
12 MOORE, Sarah Housekeeper F 75 1796 Staffordshire

possibly related
1871 Address: Spon Lane, West Bromwich
8 MOORE, John Head M 50 1821 Staffordshire
8 MOORE, Sarah Wife F 50 1821 Staffordshire
8 MOORE, Noah Son M 15 1856 Staffordshire View
8 MOORE, Ann Daughter F 11 1860 Staffordshire

1891Address: 5, Railway Terrace, Spon Lane, West Bromwich
78 BLIZZARD, William H Head Married M 30 1861 Stationary Engine Driver
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
78 BLIZZARD, Sarah J Wife Married F 30 1861
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
78 BLIZZARD, Ethel P Daughter F 7 1884 Scholar
West Bromwich, Staffordshire

Looking at address now

1891 Address: 4, Spon Lane, West Bromwich
35 TABBENER, Harry Head Married M 35 1856 Refreshment House Keeper
Newcastle, Staffordshire
35 TABBENER, Sarah J Wife Married F 33 1858
Rounds Green, Worcestershire
35 TABBENER, Nellie Daughter F 7 1884
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
35 TABBENER, Polly Daughter F 2 1889
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
35 FIGGIN, Dinah J Sister Widow F 31 1860
Draycott, Staffordshire
35 TABBENER, Frederick C Brother Single M 20 1871 Fish Cook
Draycott, Staffordshire
35 HABBERLEY, Sarah J Servant Single F 25 1866
West Bromwich, Staffordshire View
35 BLIZZARD, Elizabeth Servant Single F 18 1873
West Bromwich, Staffordshire <<<<<<<<<<

1861 Address: Thompsons Yard, Spon Lane, West Bromwich
MOORE, William Head Married M 36 1825 Labourer
Ireland
MOORE, Mary Wife Married F 35 1826
Ireland
MOORE, Timothy Son M 11 1850 ...
Ireland
MOORE, John Son M 9 1852 Scholar
Ireland
MOORE, Malaehia Son M 6 1855 Scholar
Manchester, Lancashire
MOORE, Ann Daughter F 4 1857
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Mary Daughter F 1 1860
West Bromwich, Staffordshire

fits with

1901 Address: 4, Spon Lane Railway Terrace, West Bromwich
MOORE, Isaac Head Married M 39 1862 Laborer At Iron Foundry West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Charlotte Wife Married F 38 1863 West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, John W Son Single M 18 1883 Turner At Axle Works West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Ann E Daughter Single F 17 1884 General Servant Domestic West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Isaac Son Single M 13 1888 West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Samuel Son Single M 11 1890 West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Florence E Daughter Single F 8 1893 West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Arthur Son Single M 6 1895 West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Sarah J Daughter Single F 2 1899 West Bromwich, Staffordshire

Got this on familysearch

Isaac Moore
England, Births and Christenings, 1538-1975
christening: 20 May 1863 ALL SAINTS,?WEST BROMWICH,?STAFFORD,?ENGLAND
parents: William Moore,? Mary Ann
name: Isaac Moore
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 20 May 1863
baptism/christening place: ALL SAINTS,WEST BROMWICH,STAFFORD,ENGLAND
father's name: William Moore
mother's name: Mary Ann
indexing project (batch) number: C01024-3
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 497347, 497348, 497349, 497350, 497351

I have looked at that too

1861 Address: Messenger Lane, West Bromwich
Sex Age Birth Year Occupation
Disability Where born Image
MOORE, Joseph Head Married M 59 1802 Well Sinker
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Mary Wife Married F 58 1803 Wife
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
MOORE, Samuel Son Unmarried M 35 1826 Well Sinker
West Bromwich, Staffordshire
CLULEE, John Grandson M 7 1854 Scholar
West Bromwich, Staffordshire

1871 Address: Mayer's Green, West Bromwich
MOORE, Joseph Head M 67 1804 Staffordshire
MOORE, Ann Wife F 40 1831 Nottinghamshire

1881 census Address: 23, Mayers Green, West Bromwich
MOORE, Ann Head Widow F 52 1829 Chair Woman
Nottingham
MOORE, George Edwin Son Single M 9 1872
West Bromwich
MOORE, Isaac Boarder Single M 19 1862 Puddler
West Bromwich

I am absolutely sure about Isaac and Charlotte and am happy with the 1891 - 1911 census returns.

The William Moore entries are close and I agree that Jane may have included him in her return when he was visiting his mother but that doesn't explain the different birthplaces - Coventry and Oldbury are over 30 miles apart.

In my search for Isaac this is the 1881 return that I had for him, which also fits the birth details.

West Bromwich

Name Age
Ann Moore 52
George Edwin Moore 9
Isaac Moore 19 <<<<<< boarder, occupation Pudddler

I have just enlarged 1871 with Hannah and it definitely says he is married.

I have also come across worse age anomalies.

I have come across a few cases where someone was counted twice. Perhaps Jane answered for William although he was visiting his mother.

Williams details are identical on both.

I thought you were certain of Isaac and Charlotte?

Thanks for your help Susan - sleep well

LK - Thank you for your hard work on my behalf

I've spent half the afternoon going round in circles with the census information that you posted. All the Isaac and Charlotte entries that you posted are correct, but he does consistently say 1862, West Bromwich. Oldbury does come under the West Brom registration district and if he was not giving the information in the earlier censuses it's likely that his parents could give Oldbury as his place of birth.

The William Moore anomaly I can make no sense of, we seem to have a William Moore, born 1832 in Coventry but living in Oldbury. He appears with his mother Hannah Cartwright in 1851 and 1881, in between he is with his London born wife Jane in Oldbury.

However a William Moore born 1832 but in Oldbury appears as a son of Hannah Cartwright in 1871 when Coventry William is with his wife and children at another address. I think I need a drink!

Job Cartwright married a Hannah Moon in 1840 in Dudley, Moon is not a million miles away from Moor so that all ties in - sort of.

I went back and had another look at the census entry which has Isaac with parents Ed and Sarah, his birth details are a much closer match and not being able to find an Edward Moore/Sarah marriage in the area wondered if he could have been William Edward or vice versa

So this appears to rule out the Stone street connection

1871 Address: Stone Street, Oldbury
ADAMS, Elizabeth Head F 60 1811 Worcestershire
ADAMS, James Son M 17 1854 Worcestershire
HARPER, Thomas Grandson M 17 1854 Worcestershire
PRESTON, Isaac Boarder M 49 1822 Worcestershire
MOORE, William Boarder M 39 1832 Warwickshire <<<<<<
MOORE, Jane Boarder F 35 1836 London
MOORE, Samuel Son M 15 1856 Worcestershire
MOORE, George Son M 12 1859 Worcestershire
MOORE, Isaac Son M 4 1867 Worcestershire

1871 census Address: Birmingham Street, Oldbury
CARTWRIGHT, Hannah Head F 60 1811 Nottinghamshire
MOORE, William Son M 39 1832 Worcestershire <<<<<<<
MOORE, John Son M 34 1837 Worcestershire
CARTWRIGHT, Ephraim Son M 18 1853 Worcestershire


BUT Hannah is here in Stone Street.

1881 Address: 19, Stone St, Oldbury (Worcs)
MOORE, William Head Married M 48 1833 Coal Miner Coventry, Warwickshire
MOORE, Jane Wife Married F 45 1836 London, London, Middlesex
MOORE, Saml Son Single M 25 1856 Stone Miner (Iron) Oldbury
MOORE, George Son Single M 21 1860 Ironworker Oldbury
MOORE, Isaac Son Single M 15 1866 Ironworker Oldbury
MOORE, Hannah Daughter Single F 6 1875 Scholar Oldbury
MOORE, William Son Single M 4 1877 Scholar Oldbury
CARTWRIGHT, Hannah Mother Widow F 68 1813 Annuitant Nottingham :-S :-S