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Yes, I've looked at the link you gave on stillbirth - and the mother may have actually delivered the boy - hence the 'he was born' but the would be recorded in stillbirths, only one more thought I have - and would tie in with why it may be a Maternity Hospital birth rather than a 'general' (St Andrews, Poplar) hospital birth is if they suspected there may be birth complications - - maybe twins would be considered complications - would they have been able to tell that in 1931?

Part of the problem is that the exact DOB is known,

Whilst we do remember birthdays because its when we remember to send a card, but over the years the actual your of birth can often be confused

although in this case it looks more like the Boy was possibly a stillbirth and that would explain why no matching birth and death is listed on the index

other than that i am out of ideas for now

Roy

Roy

I agree - Poplar / Bow come under Tower Hamlets (most of my certs are from there) but the only birth I could find is the Marylebone Reg District - wondering if the birth/s started in Tower Hamlets but mother was rushed to another hospital in Marylebone Reg District - not sure what Hospital that might be

EDIT: Just checked Lost Hospitals website - there is this one - maybe they were visiting someone when it was time to give birth!

http://ezitis.myzen.co.uk/queencharlottemarylebone.html

I think the births and deaths should have been registered in poplar

POPLAR REGISTRATION DISTRICT
Registration County : London (1837–1965), Greater London (1965).
Created : 1.7.1837.
Abolished : 1.1.1966 (to become part of Poplar & Bethnal Green registration district).
Sub-districts : Bow, Bow & Bromley, Bromley, Poplar.
GRO volumes : II (1837–51), 1c (1852–1946), 5D (1946–65).
Registers now held by : Tower Hamlets.

Roy

Mmmm just wondering on cause of death. If they lived in Poplar / Bow - why were the birth(s) in Marylebone district? It would be interesting to know the place of birth.

As Kucinta says maybe there is an indication that Barbara E was a twin on the birth certificate. If the Birth Cert is correct (and everything so far ties up with what your Great Aunty said) then perhaps the death cert might give more information on cause of death.

I think it is odd that there are certs for the girl (If it is Barbara E) and not for the boy

My Great aunty she told me of the twins a few years ago, unfortunately she didn't have anything else but that it was a boy who died the day they were born and a girl who lived for a few days, and that her older brother (my grandfather) was born 12 months later on that day.
Joe

Joanne

Just a question - how do you know the exact date of birth was 1st November 1931?

Don't birth certs of twins/multiple births usually give the time of birth?

Just wondered if this would still be the case if one child were considered 'stillborn'

At least it might confirm if Barbara E mentioned before was a twin.

You cannot research the stillbirth register, not sure but i think only patents can apply for a stillbirth cert but siblings can also if the parents are deceased

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

Roy

Am still looking for the son

EDIT - not finding the son - but if you get the birth certificate for the daughter it may (or may not) give something to go on

I didn't see those, thank you, that gives me the daughters name.

And this one?

Civil registration event: Death


Name: ANDREWS, Barbara E
Registration district: [?] Marylebone
County: London
Year of registration: 1931
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at death:0
Volume no: 1A
Page no: 630

How would I research the stillbirth register in GRO?
Thanks
Joe

Have you seen this one?

Civil registration event: Birth


Name: ANDREWS, Barbara E
Registration district: [?] Marylebone
County: London
Year of registration: 1931
Quarter of registration: Oct-Nov-Dec
Mother's maiden name: Barber
Volume no:[?]1A
Page no:[?]597

EDIT just tidied it up a bit

Janet, I take it you where present at the birth and death that was not registered

I think not: The doctor would have been breaking the law after 1st july 1927

the dead child needed a death cert or a stillbirth cert in order to be buried

Roy

May have depended how close to the Hospital that they lived - if they lived in Poplar / Bow then the closest would probably have been St Andrews Hospital (gone now) - my parents born 1931 and 1932 were born in St Andrew's Hospital, as was my Dad's brother (1938).

The other option might have been the Princess Elizabeth of York Hospital for Children (in Hackney).

Just to answer the question you asked (Why would a stillborn child not be registered)

Stillborn children were not registered prior to 1927, Stillbirth registration was introduced on 1 July 1927

A child who was stillborn would not be registered on the bmd index because a still born child never lived independant of it's mother

the stillbirth would be registered on the stillbirth register held at the GRO

A stillbirth occurs when a fetus has died in the uterus. A wide variety of definitions exist.Once the fetus has died, the mother may or may not have contractions and undergo childbirth. The term is often used in distinction to live birth or miscarriage and the word miscarriage is oftentimes used incorrectly to describe stillbirths. Most stillbirths occur in full-term pregnancies.

from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stillbirth


Roy

Hospital births were certainly not common place at the time. As for a baby being registered even if it took a single breath this isn't necessarily so. I know of at least one twin who was born around that time whose birth and death weren't registered. The Doctor said that they need not register as the child died shortly after birth and there was another child alive no one would know it had been a twin.

I know that the family where living in East London at the time, I think that they lived in Poplar or Bromley Bow.
The other two children where both born in Royal Free Hospital, both are deceased.
Am unsure if hospital births were the norm then or becoming so, or if she went to hospital because of the last birth
Thanks
Joe

Joanne, From your description the children were not stillborn

If a child born took one single breath then died then it was alive and would be registered as a birth

Roy