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Hi Janice, on a lighter note, My Dad was known to love the Gee Gees, apparantly had a gambling issue, oh dear, perhaps that's where it all started...you have been an immense help and have inspired me to look further. I have never been to Kew, but very tempted to go there. Do you think there might be a ful address given on that document?
Can I look at a Cencus for perhaps 1952?
Hilary

If we assume she came from a posh family, they wouldn't have been impressed with her getting pregnant so she could have been sent abroad to have the baby.

Or how about she was at a finishing school and met a German ;-)

Hi Janice, Would Gladys have been involved with that application, not sure how it would work, as he was under 18 yrs, perhaps the boarding school acted on his behalf, maybe it was in Staffordshire? Would love to know why Gladys was in Berlin in the first place.
Hilary

Clutching at straws here but there's a racecourse at Uttoxeter :-)

Are you able to get to Kew to look at the document? If not, I have a friend who goes pretty regularly - I can get her to look at it for you. See if there are further clues or mention of a Gladys.

Hi Janice, that must be him, as I say, I know little of his past, only that he left Berlin in 1937 with his Mother, Gladys - He went away to sea at the age of 16, maybe he needed that certificate to obtain a passport - I still have his last British passport, how wonderful, however, don't get why he was resident in Staffordshire?
Hilary

Sorry Janice, Yes, it was a Day Trip, My father had gone to visit her, hoping to speak to her, he neverrdisclosed wiyh my Mother the outcome of that visit.
Hialry

Because your father was born in Germany and had a German birth cert, did he have to apply for naturalisation? I've found this on the National Archive website:

Naturalisation Certificate: James Robert Smith. From Germany. Resident in Uttoxeter, Staffordshire. Certificate CZ1912 issued 8 June 1948.


EDIT If this is your father, he would have been 17 so maybe a German birth cert was an issue when getting a job.

Hi Janice, from what I recall my Mum saying, he very rarely came home for holidays - I do remember my Mum saying that , My father had said , he very rarely came home to his Mother,when he did visit, he recalls a big house and a maid who used to look after him. I'm not sure if she remarried, My Mother keeps going on about a Major McVie that my father had said thaat Gladys was very friendly with?- all very vague I know.
Do you know of a Dladys smith ?

Hilary

Did Gladys ever marry later in life?

When your father visited her, was it a day trip?

Thanks Jill

I have no definate birth year for Gladys, I am only speculating that she may have been early 20's as she had my Father out of wedlock in 1931, young , niaeve, vunerable, Berlin was an exciting place to be for young women inthe early thirties, she came back just before the War, My father was very eastern European to look at, father may hav ebeen jewish, is that why she left, perhaps it was dangerous for her to stay, as I say, all speculation, no idea when she died, however , my father did visit her in the late 60's, he wouldn't even disclose to my Mother her whereabouts then, sadly he died when I was 4 yrs old, so many un answered questions. :-(

Looking for a will for William wouldn't be an easy thing. Wonder what the grandfather's occupation was. Family business might indicate possible money.

Of course all I'm doing is speculating.

J

And reading back, the occupation of the father on the census was horse driver.

And apparently she is on 300 trees on GR. Who knows you might just be lucky but never give up. It took me years to find someone who apparently didn't even exist.

Fits with the info. Obviously speculation but maybe one of the names will ring a bell.

1911 Census Household Record

Household information
Address 17 Garden Road Richmond Surrey
Parish North Sheen
Town Richmond
Type of Building Private House
Number of Rooms 3 Rooms
Inhabited Y
Reference RG14PN3601 RG78PN135 RD41 SD1 ED21 SN272
Administrative County Surrey
Registration District Richmond
Registration Sub District Richmond
Enumeration District 21
Householder 1
Name William Smith
Relationship to Head of Household Head
Condition / Years Married Married
Gender M
Age 30
Estimated Year of Birth 1881
Occupation Horse Driver
Employed Y
Working at Home N
Industry Cartage Contractor
Place of Birth London Mid
Householder 2
Name Mary Ann Smith
Relationship to Head of Household Wife
Condition / Years Married Married / 7 Years
Total Children Born Alive 3
Children Still Living 2
Children Who Have Died 1
Gender F
Age 28
Estimated Year of Birth 1883
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Richmond Surrey
Householder 3
Name Florence Ellen Smith
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 4
Estimated Year of Birth 1907
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Richmond Surrey
Householder 4
Name Gladys Smith
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Condition / Years Married Single
Gender F
Age 1
Estimated Year of Birth 1910
Occupation Juvenile
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Richmond Surrey
Householder 5
Name Richard Dyer
Relationship to Head of Household Grandfather
Condition / Years Married Widower
Gender M
Age 72
Estimated Year of Birth 1839
Employed N
Working at Home N
Place of Birth Richmond Surrey
© brightsolid online publishing ltd}

Any details however small on her death?

How certain is Gladys' birth for 1910? Two registered in Richmond. Search period Mar 1910 to Dec 1911. Both have second names though.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Sep 1910 (>99%)
SMITH Gladys H Richmond S. 2a 491
SMITH Gladys M Richmond S. 2a 511

Hi Jan, My father was very secretive about his past, he did mention his Mother was quite afflluent and that she owned horses? You're quite right, it does seem a tall order, however, someone may pick up on the Berlin Connection. I have no idea why she was there in the first place. He was actually born in the Bendler Block(now Stauffenberg Strausser), some military connection, maybe?? - as for the school, don't even know the name?Thank you for your feedback

On the face of it this seems a very tall order.
I am wondering about the boarding school. Was it a fee-paying school? If so I wonder if any records exist.
Jan

I am trying to find any living Relative of Gladys Smith, frustrating as it is I have no Birth record - possibly born around 1910. She was from Richmond Surrey and gave Birth to My Father James Robert Smith 9 May 1931. She was living in Berlin at the time of My Father's Birth and returned to England in 1937/38. We know very little about her as my Father died in 1971. He spent his childhood in a boarding school and he spoke very little of his Mother, during his 9 year marriage to my Mother. I have his Birth record which I obtained from the Standsemant in Berlin - no Father present on record, Just 'Gladys Smith, no middle name. I wen tto visit Berlin in may 2011, where I visited the address on his birth record. Can anyone please help me with this? Hilary Martin( Nee Smith)