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I look forward to you posting the details from those certs Susanne - we can then make a 'proper' job of finding more info for you on this family.

Dea Xxx

Hi everyone, your input is very much appreciated. I have asked my relative to get her parents birth and marriage certificate before I, and you, expend any more time or energy (I did say it nicer than that though) before trying any more rabbit holes. It seems most of that family changed their names so losing track of them between birth and census was easy and no doubt you're over it the same as I am, at this point - but just you wait until I get the proof in my hot hands. Thank you for the info re the Grubb people but am fairly sure they're not related. I thank you all again for your efforts and totally agree certificates must be the starting gate for this enquiry. Thank you all & bye for now. Sue :-) ;-) :-)

Sorry, Sue, but nothing that you have given us proves the identity of George Christopher's father.

Without his birth cert, you are, quite honestly, going nowhere

George William born 1895 is not relevant. He would been 11 when George C was conceived.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=10&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1

(not sure if above will help with number for CWGC, or elsewhere!)

Chris :)

from a Public Family Tree on ancestry ........ always to be treated with caution because people just add information without checking it out, BUT such trees can provide ideas!


George William Wren
Birth 7 Feb 1895 in St George in The East, London, England
Death 4 Aug 1977

Married Elizabeth Ruby L Grubb, 1921

No children shown


Parents

William Wren 1870 –
Mary Ann Hammond 1864 –



Siblings

Lily Maud Wren1892 – 1988
Florence Annie Wren1898 –



William Wren is described as a Customs Officer on his marriage certificate.




The owner of this tree appears to be descended from, or connected with, Lily Maud Wren





sylvia

Could this be the birth registration for Elizabeth R L Grubb?


Births Jun 1898 (>99%)

Grubb Elizabeth Ruby L Whitechapel 1c 320


and, on the 1911 Census??????


1911 Census

Name: Ruby Elizabeth Louisa Grubb
Age in 1911: 11
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1900
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Wapping
Civil parish: St George in the East
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 38 Jubilee Buildings, Wapping
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: SCHOOL
Registration district: St George in the East
Registration District Number: 19
Sub-registration district: St George and St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 26
Piece: 1524

William Grubb 40
Elizabeth Ann Grubb 43
William Joseph Grubb 11
Ruby Elizabeth Louisa Grubb 11
Maud Alec Grubb 10
Grace Eveline Grubb 5
Dorothy Grubb 3




and in 1901

1901 Census

Name: Elizabeth R L Grubb
Age: 2
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1899
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: William Grubb
Mother's Name: Elizabeth A Grubb
Gender: Female
Where born: Aldgate, London, England

Civil parish: St George in the East
Ecclesiastical parish: St John of Wapping
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St George in the East
Sub-registration district: St John

William Grubb 30
Elizabeth A Grubb 34
Elizabeth R L Grubb 2
William J Grubb 1
Maud E Grubb 4 Months




sylvia

Hi Reggie, I live in Oz and while all you lovelies are up and about researching I'm snoozing my face off (what's left of it LOL). What you've written up is what I have already but its the two men, father: George William Wren and son: George Christopher's census details, marriage details, etc. I can't seem to find a birth certificate that relates to GWW's marriage, what's his wife's name and they must have had parents and thats where I'm stuck. So hope you've all had a magic nights sleep, I'm off to the airport now to collect my daughter. Talk again soon & many thanks for your help.
Sue

Name: Samuel Kilgour
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1884
Baptism Date: 29 Jun 1884
Father's Name: John Kilgour
Mother's Name: Jane Kilgour
Parish or Poor Law Union: Bow Common St Paul
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Register Type: Parish Registers



Name: Samuel Kilgour
Birth Place: Bow, Middlesex
Residence: Poplar
Death Date: 12 Mar 1917
Death Location: France & Flanders
Enlistment Location: Poplar, Middlesex
Rank: Private
Regiment: Essex Regiment
Battalion: 10th Battalion
Number: 13858
Type of Casualty: Died of wounds
Theatre of War: Western European Theatre

1911 England Census

Name: Kathleen E Hill
Age in 1911: 4
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1907
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Poplar, London, England
Civil parish: West Ham
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street Address: No 19 St Johns Road, Canning Town, Victoria Docks, London E
Registration district: West Ham
Registration District Number: 188
Sub-registration district: Canning Town
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Household schedule number: 71
Piece: 9498
Household Members:
Name Age
William Hill 31
H E Hill 29...................born Bow Common
William Hill 7
Rosina Hill 6
Kathleen E Hill 4

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921

Name: Hannah Eliza Kilgour
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1882
Spouse Name: William Hill
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 13 Apr 1903
Parish: St Gabriel, Chrisp Street
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: John Kilgour
Spouse Father Name: Thomas Dashyman Hill
Register Type: Parish Register


Address for both: 57, Barchester St

Witnesses: Samuel Kilgour and Annie Curl

I can't even find kathleen E Hill born 6/2/1907 (married George Christopher Wren 1937)on 1911 census with parents Hannah Elizabeth (Kilgour) and William Hill.


Maryb.

I had forgotten the birth date of George Christopher in 1907........so i have deleted that info. :-(

Unfortunately, that can't be the father of George C, who, I am led to understand, was the father of Sue's relative, on whose behalf this query has been raised

I've been unable to find George Christopher in 1911 - try as I may

I would venture to suggest that getting the cert now might be better. It will cost the equivalent of of £9.25 Sterling, inclusive of postage.

Memories do play tricks...........

Reggie the relative is going to the UK next month & have already suggested she do this. The information I've got is just from memories and the medals the two sisters have. Am very grateful for the assistance you've all given and apologize for the terrible vagueness of my information. Sue

Really appreciate what you've supplied already, its nearly 5pm here and making the dinner is next priority. Thank you so much for your help & look forward to talking again. Sue :-) :-) :-)

I am told George William Wren served with 2nd Br Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in Boer War & India. Retired from Army (Catterick) then served with HM Customs & Excise.
???on reading relatives email details are confusing with who died in Ypres. Could it have been brother William Hill, my apologies, I think it could be.

Will have to come back to this later as I have to pick up my grandchildren and have them for the day.

Dea Xxx

If George C is your relative's 'line', buying the birth cert would be his/her best bet as a basis for factual research

These are all the G Wrens on CWGC

Which is the one you say was George C's father?

Some clearly do not qualify.........


WREN, GEORGE Private 5369 13/07/1916 27 Yorkshire Regiment United Kingdom L. 34. KEMMEL CHATEAU MILITARY CEMETERY
WREN, GEORGE Private G/4620 28/09/1915 24 Middlesex Regiment United Kingdom Panel 99 to 101. LOOS MEMORIAL
WREN, GEORGE Private G/6417 03/11/1916 20 The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment) United Kingdom Pier and Face 5 D and 6 D. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
WREN, GEORGE JOHN Private 36504 17/02/1917 36 Royal Berkshire Regiment United Kingdom Pier and Face 11 D. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL
WREN, GEORGE ALEXANDER Private 131918 17/10/1918 19 Machine Gun Corps (Infantry) United Kingdom Panel 10. VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL
WREN, G A Gunner 46207 15/09/1916 19 Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom IV. C. 73. HEILLY STATION CEMETERY, MERICOURT-L'ABBE
WREN, G Private 21518 23/04/1916 Border Regiment United Kingdom A. 20. 1. ST. SEVER CEMETERY, ROUEN
WREN, G Gunner 167211 23/04/1917 Royal Field Artillery United Kingdom I. G. 6. ST. NICOLAS BRITISH CEMETERY
WREN, G Private 275433 24/08/1918 London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers) United Kingdom II. F. 67. BRONFAY FARM MILITARY CEMETERY, BRAY-SUR-SOMME
WREN, G B Private 37920 27/04/1917 Northumberland Fusiliers United Kingdom III. E. 8. BROWN'S COPSE CEMETERY, ROEUX
WREN, GLADSTONE Private 9108 08/07/1916 24 Northamptonshire Regiment United Kingdom Pier and Face 11 A and 11 D. THIEPVAL MEMORIAL