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Hello Everyone

Just a quick note to let you know that I have received the birth certificates for :-

Mary Jane Penfold, born 23/03/1920 father Edwin, mother Germaine. Curiously the birth is not shown as being registered until 03/03/1961 "0n the authority of the Registrar General".

Leonard Brooks, born 04/01/1894, no father, mother Elizabeth Brooks.

I shall now try to find Elizabeth's birth to see if her father is John Brooks.

Thank you once again for all your help.

Veronica.

Thanks Marie Celeste and Rose, you have no idea how grateful I am for all the input everyone has given me over the past few days.

Veronica.

Hi Veronica - you can't save replies on here to "draft" in the same way as private messages. So, write it and press "submit" - if you find after you've submitted that you want to add or change something then just click "edit" on your post.

It's in the March quarter:

Births Mar 1894
Brooks Leonard Leeds 9b 424

Rose

Thank you, Jan, I will send off for the certificate.

Veronica.

Just to confirm:

1894
Brooks Leonard Leeds 9b 424

Jan

Marie Celeste

Thank you for your patience and hard work.

All I know about Edwin is as follows :-

His marriage certificate to Germaine shows -

he was aged 28 on 16/01/1915 and a bachelor

he was a Chemist's Porter which agrees his service record

his residence (and Germaine's) at the time of marriage was 35a Winter Road Eastbourne

his father was shown as Edward Penfold, coal labourer deceased.

the 2 witnesses were Jesse and Mary Ann Penfold.

On the certificate Edwin's name was originally recorded as Edward and then changed to Edwin so I think it quite likely that the same mistake occurred in respect of his father but that his name was not changed.

I am therefore sure that the census record you found for the Pinfold family is the correct one.

So, he enlisted in 1915, the year he married Germaine! Then he re-enlisted in 1921 after his possible daughter, Mary J. Penfold, was born. I have sent for her birth certificate and so will be able to confirm whether Germaine was her mother when that arrives. I live in France so it will be a couple of weeks in coming.

I had also hoped that Edwin would lead me to Germaine in 1911 but no luck so far.

Rose/brummiejan - sorry for being so dim about the Kenyon connection. As I said before I am getting so much information that I am somewhat confused. I shall have to write down all that you all tell me as I get boggle-eyed scrolling up and down.

Yes, Rose, it is very likely that Leonard did not know where he was born and, also, that he regarded Frederick Fisher as his father.

Can anyone confirm, please, that the GRO reference for the birth certificate of the Leonard Brookes born in Leeds St. Saviours 04/01/1894 is Leeds Vol 9b page 424?
I have not been able to find it on the FreeBMD site and got that information from "findmypast".

I do apologise if I have missed answering anything this time. I don't know how to save my reply to "draft" and have just lost it once again whilst scrolling up to check up on the information already provided.

Thank you all,

Veronica.

Veronica,

Leonard might not have known where he was born. He grew up in Sussex and was separated from his family.

Rose

Was hoping Edwin in 1911 might lead us to Germaine but can't find him yet:

I think this may be him with his family in 1901, name slightly mis-recorded:

PINFOLD, Edwin M Head Married M 40 1861 Coal Porter West Grinstead, Sussex
PINFOLD, Mary A Wife Married F 35 1866 Eastbourne, Sussex
PINFOLD, Edwin Son M 14 1887 Coal Porter West Grinstead, Sussex <<<<
PINFOLD, William T Son M 11 1890 Eastbourne, Sussex
PINFOLD, Jesse Son M 3 1898 Eastbourne, Sussex
HOLLEBON, Jessie Lodger Married F 40 1861 Charwoman London
FRENCH, Fanny Servant Single F 27 1874 Servant Eastbourne, Sussex

Piece: 883 Folio: 71 Page: 34
Registration District: Eastbourne
Civil Parish: Eastbourne

Address: 13, Western Road, Eastbourne County: Sussex

Veronica - Edwin's service records are on Ancestry. It looks like he was born West Grinstead.

When he first enlisted in 1915 he had been a chemist's porter for 10 months. when he rejoined in 1921 he was a plumber.

Just to save trawling through - do you know anything about Edwin Penfold which might help us find him 1911?
Jan

Veronica, if you look back you will see the marriage of Edith G. Penfold to a Kenyon, hence that name.
Jan

Hello Rose and Marie Celeste

Thank you for your input.

I have had so many responses I am getting somewhat confused. Yes, I did see brummiejan's first post but had mentally blocked it out because of her comment re Leonard's birth being in Yorkshire instead of Lancashire. The post from Andrew about the Canadian 1st World War soldiers mentioned his father being Frederick and "Sussex". I think I shall have to send for the certificate to establish once and for all if it is the correct one.

Thank you for the link about Wills.

How did you find the service records Marie Celeste?

I am not sure that the births belong to my Germaine/Elizabeth even if the father is our Edwin. Germaine gave birth to:-

Frederick John Fisher on 10th May 1902 (the same day as Gwen Penfold) and

May Fisher on 23rd May 1905, exactly 2 months after Mary Penfold.

I do not understand where Edith Grace Kenyon came from. Did you just find the birth on that date and link it to Kenyon instead of Penfold?

Back to the drawing board. Thanks once again,

Veronica.

Edith Grace Kenyon's birthday was the 19th.

Rose

Here's a link to a thread all about wills:
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/genealogy_chat/thread/1259939

Just having a look through Edwin Penfold's service records - longest I've ever seen, 66 pages!!

On a memo dated 07 March 1917 his children are stated as:

Gwen - 10 May 1902
Mary - 23 Mar 1905
Grace - 19 Dec 1907

Gwen's surname was first written as Parker then changed to Penfold.

Veronica,

Did you not see Brummiejan's post?

This one has no father:

Name: Leonard Brookes
Birth Date: 4 Jan 1894
Parish: Leeds, St Saviour
Baptism Date: 19 Jan 1894
Father's Name: Brookes
Mother's Name: Bessie Brookes

Interesting thing is, he was also born on the 4th.

Rose

Not too many Edith G Penfolds:

Marriages Dec 1930
Kenyon Charles Penfold Eastbourne 2b 229
Penfold Edith G Kenyon Eastbourne 2b 229

Death has her born Feb 1909 though.

Rose

Sorry brummiejan, I have just seen your reply, thank you.

I also tried to find Edith Penfold's birth on the FreeBMD and findmypast as well as on the 1911 census but only came up with Edith Mabel whose father was Henry Penfold, so that was wrong.

Perhaps Edith Grace was "hiding" with the others on census night.

Thank you once again, Veronica.

Hello everyone, sorry it is me again.

I have tried to locate the birth of Leonard Brookes Fisher, born in Sussex 04/02/1894- father Frederick, (as suggested by Andrew from the Canadian soldiers of the 1st World War) on both FreeBMD and Findmypast but have been unable to locate any likely suspect.

Can anybody suggest where else to look. I have not yet subscribed to Ancestry but I fear I must do so in the not too distant future.

I have also tried to find Edwin Penfold and Germaine/Elizabeth, Florence Mabel and May Fisher on the 1911 census without luck. I wonder where they were all hiding on census day?

Thank you all in anticipation.

Veronica.