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Stephanie
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15 Jun 2013 15:27 |
Hello!
I'm having difficulty deciphering whether this is a direct decendant of mind or not.
Jonathan Helliwell was/is my great great grandfather. I'm sure he had a son called Seth (I have his birth cert. confirming that he was born 29/01/1883 in Luddendenfoot, Yorkshire) and that he was married to Elizabeth (formerly) Stansfield.
Further down the years they are registered in the census as being publicans of the Punch Bowl pub in Hipperholme.However I cannot find anything for record of his parents, no birth cert of marriage cert which is odd.
I have obtained a birth cert for a Jonathan Helliwell born 27/09/1953 Dean Mill Midgley saying that he was a papermaker (Vol 9a, page 410) but I'm not convinved that it's him.
I would be grateful if anyone could help me out, thank you in advance,
Stephanie
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:32 |
Forgive my pointing this out.....but he can't be your descendant.............
He may be your ancestor...............in which case you are his descendant
You should work backwards..............verifying info at every stage.
WHO was married to Stansfield?
Until 1875, there were no penalties for NOT registering births...so don't be surprised if you can't find one............
Was SETH definitely your ancestor?
You say you have his birth cert...............so who are the named parents?
What is the father's stated occupation?
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:35 |
No marriage on freebmd for Elizabeth Stansfield to anyone named Helliwell
Please tell us how you got back to these people..............
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Potty
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15 Jun 2013 15:38 |
The family in 1901 - living at the Punch Bowl;
1901 England Census about Seth Helliwell Name: Seth Helliwell Age:18 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1883 Relation: Son Father's Name: Jonathan Helliwell Mother's Name: Elizabeth Helliwell
Where born: Luddenden Foot, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Hipperholme
Jonathan Helliwell 47 b Sowerby Elizabeth Helliwell 49 bDulesgate, Lancashire Seth Helliwell 18 Fred Squires 22 Sarah A Corner 23
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:38 |
Right........let's try to work back
1911 census
Person: HELLIWELL, Seth Address: 124 Gibbet St HX HELLIWELL, Elizabeth Head Married F 59 1852 Retired Publican Todmorden Yorkshire VIEW STANSFIELD, John Brother Single M 62 1849 Retired Grocer Todmorden Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Seth Son Married M 28 1883 Engineer Millwright Luddenden Rd Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Helen Daughter In Law Married3 years F 24 1887 Brighouse Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, James Stansfield Grandson M 3 1908 Brighouse Yorkshire VIEW RG number: RG14 Piece: 26484 Reference: RG14PN26484 RG78PN1528B RD496 SD5 ED33 SN115 Registration District: Halifax Sub District: Halifax South Enumeration District: 33 Parish: Halifax Address: 124 Gibbet St HX County: Yorkshire (West riding) refine search back to 1911 census search resultsBack to all search results
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:39 |
1901 census
Person: HELLIWELL, Seth Address: Punch Bowl Inn, Hipperholme
HELLIWELL, Jonathan Head Married M 47 1854 Publican Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 49 1852 Dulesgate, Lancashire VIEW HELLIWELL, Seth Son Single M 18 1883 Barman Luddenden Foot, Yorkshire VIEW SQUIRES, Fred Servant Single M 22 1879 Waiter (Public House) Clifton, Yorkshire VIEW CORNER, Sarah A Servant Married F 23 1878 General Servant (Domestic) Rochdale, Lancashire
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MarieCeleste
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15 Jun 2013 15:41 |
Hello Stephanie, welcome to the boards.
Could you just clarify who was a papermaker when he was born in 1953?
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:41 |
?????????
1881 census
Person: HELLIWELL, Jonathan Address: Short Riggen, Sowerby
HELLIWELL, Mary Head Widow F 66 1815 Farmer 12 Acres Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Eli Son Single M 35 1846 Wool Sorter (Len) Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Jonathan Son Single M 26 1855 Spinner Wool Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, Emma J Grand Daughter Single F 16 1865 Spinner Cotton Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW HELLIWELL, William Grand Son Single M 6 1875 Scholar Halifax, Yorkshire VIEW
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Potty
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15 Jun 2013 15:42 |
Elizabeth in 1911 - John Stansfield shown as brother; POB given as Todmorden, Yorkshire:
Name: Elizabeth Helliwell
Age in 1911: 59
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Todmorden, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Halifax
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 124 Gibbet St Halifax
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: Retired Publican
Registration District: Halifax
Registration District Number: 496
Sub-registration District: Halifax South
ED, institution, or vessel: 33
Piece: 26484
Household Members:
Name
Age
Elizabeth Helliwell 59 John Stansfield 62 Seth Helliwell 28 Helen Helliwell 24 James Stansfield Helliwell 3
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Potty
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15 Jun 2013 15:47 |
Possible for Jonathan in 1881: 1881 England Census about Jonathan Helliwell Name: Jonathan Helliwell Age: 26 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Son Mother's Name: Mary Helliwell Where born: Halifax, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Sowerby in Halifax
Sub-registration District: Sowerby
Mary Helliwell 66 Eli Helliwell 35 Jonathan Helliwell 26 Emma J. Helliwell 16 William Helliwell 6
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:48 |
1891 census
Person: HELLEWELL, Jonathan Address: Huddersfield Road, Wike Or Wyke, Wyke
HELLEWELL, Jonathan Head Married M 37 1854 Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Elizabeth Wife Married F 39 1852 Yorkshire, Dutes Gate VIEW HELLEWELL, Seth Son Single M 8 1883 Luddendenfoot, Yorkshire VIEW NEEDHAM, Sarah Servant Single F 21 1870 Pocklington, Yorkshire VIEW JOLLY, Polly Servant Single F 25 1866 Sheffield, Yorkshire VIEW KILSHON, Robert Servant Single M 26 1865 Dewsbury, Yorkshire
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Stephanie
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15 Jun 2013 15:50 |
Many thanks! forgive me I am quite new to this.
I have the above records, thank you for summarising them.
Reggie how can I be sure that the 1881 census record you have listed is Jonathan's family?
MarieCeleste I got the papermaker reference from a birth cert for Jonathan Helliwell born 1853 that I found and ordered.
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Potty
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15 Jun 2013 15:50 |
1871 England Census about Abraham Hellewell Name: Abraham Hellewell
Age:57
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1814 Spouse's Name: Mary Hellewell Where born: Sowerby, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sowerby
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
Abraham Hellewell 57 Mary Hellewell 57 Eley Hellewell 25 John Hellewell 19 Jonathan Hellewell 16
Possible marriage for Abraham and Mary:
Name: Abraham Helliwell
Marriage or Bann Date: 3 Apr 1836
Parish: Halifax, St John the Baptist
Spouse's Name: Mary Crossley
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:51 |
1851 census
Person: HELLEWELL, Eli Address: 2, Murr Hill
HELLEWELL, Abraham Head Married M 38 1813 Carpet Weaver Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Mary Wife Married F 37 1814 Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, William Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Wool Comber Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Thomas Son Unmarried M 12 1839 Worsted Doffer At Worsted Mill Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Sarah Ann Daughter F 8 1843 Sunday Scholar Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Eli Son M 6 1845 Sowerby, Yorkshire VIEW HELLEWELL, Crossley Son M 2 1849 Sowerby, Yorkshire
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:53 |
More than one possible birth...................I would think the later one is the more likely
Births Dec 1853 (>99%) HELLIWELL Jonathan Halifax 9a 410
Births Sep 1854 (>99%) HELLAWELL Jonathan Halifax 9a 433
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ErikaH
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15 Jun 2013 15:54 |
As Jonathan and Elizabeth do not appear to have married............you are faced with the problem of identifying his father.
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MarieCeleste
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15 Jun 2013 15:56 |
I see - so the birth was 1853 not 1953!
Stephanie, which one of Jonathan's children are you descended from? Have you got Elizabeth's maiden name from a birth certificate?
There's a possibility she may have been previously married.
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Stephanie
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15 Jun 2013 15:58 |
I have the birth certificate for Seth and it states his mother as Elizabeth Helliwell (formerly Stansfield) and his father as Jonathan so it looks as if they were married. Could it be that their marriage was never recorded or that they pretended to be married?!
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Chris Ho :)
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15 Jun 2013 15:58 |
Baptism (Find My Past) Day:23 Month:Oct Year:1853 Forename:Jonathan Surname:Halliwell Relationship:Son Fathers Forename:Jonathan Fathers Occupation:Paper Maker Fathers Abode:Midgley Mothers Forename:Hannah Mothers Abode: Birth Date:27 Sept 1853 Place:Luddenden, St Mary County:Yorkshire Notes: Record source:Luddenden Baptisms Data provider:Calderdale Family History Society
(above if any help anywhere!)
Chris :)
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Potty
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15 Jun 2013 15:59 |
What are the parents' names on the 1853 birth cert?
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