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"Have you actually ordered any of the children's birth certificates to confirm Jane's maiden name?"

Not yet - a bit skint at the mo! Will do thobut.

"England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Antonio Lewis
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1889
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 392"

Yeah, got that.

"It's a possibility that Florence wasn't George's, I'm just guessing that because of the gap between the children - there's 7 years between Helen and Florence. If you establish Jane's correct name then it's likely that the elder two would have been registered in Jane's maiden name."

My thoughts in a nutshell. I'm still trying to track down the actual George Lewis/Jane ????????? wedding. One for tomorrow perhaps....

Thanks,
Si

Have you actually ordered any of the children's birth certificates to confirm Jane's maiden name?

England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915

Name: Antonio Lewis
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1889
Registration District: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 8b
Page: 392

It's a possibility that Florence wasn't George's, I'm just guessing that because of the gap between the children - there's 7 years between Helen and Florence. If you establish Jane's correct name then it's likely that the elder two would have been registered in Jane's maiden name.

"Hello Si, not so much advice but an opinion! You pondered about a much younger Irish girl with a considerably older spouse - well if she had an illegitimate child she possibly wouldn't be the first choice of the eligible young local men. She needs a roof over her and her child's head, George comes along and is happy to take her and said child on, she gets what she needs and he gets a bonny young wife."

That makes a lot of sense. Certainly the gap between the children implies a single woman (maybe widowed? can't tell yet) upping sticks to Liverpool from Ireland with a child in tow.

The other three kids? I'm open to persuasion. the youngest two - I'd say, George's without a doubt - but Florence? Who can say. Perhaps the eldest two were from a prior attachment in Ireland. Either way, she needed a hand, and George, the older Greek immigrant, got himself an instant family, and, as you say a much younger wife. Possibly not such an unusual trade off in those times.

Hello Si, not so much advice but an opinion! You pondered about a much younger Irish girl with a considerably older spouse - well if she had an illegitimate child she possibly wouldn't be the first choice of the eligible young local men. She needs a roof over her and her child's head, George comes along and is happy to take her and said child on, she gets what she needs and he gets a bonny young wife.

Hi Dea,

Thanks for the encouragement! I've not been able to make contact with the person on the other thread, despite a couple of PMs, and the Greek Orthodox Church in Liverpool haven't got back to me yet, so I find myself swinging in the breeze.

But here's some stuff I've been pondering.

the 1891 census, if accurate - and I suspect it is - shows a bloke of 52 with an Irish woman nearly 20 years younger than him, with one son born in Ireland (presumably not George's), daughters of 10 and 3 - possibly his - and a baby son 1 year old, which I'm guessing is his.

Now, if we go back to Florence's birth, we're back to 1881, so why wouldn't she be on the census if she was born in Liverpool? Who was the father? George? Someone else?

I can see how Helen (Eleni?) and Antonio (Adonis?) would have come about, and why they might well have been named as they were - it was common for Greeks to name their kids after their parents - but that still leaves the point that George has started his family with Jane (apparently) very late indeed, possibly at the ripe age of 48 or 49. Would that have been common I wonder?

The whole thing looks very odd to me, so I would appreciate advice from those rather more learned than me.

Thanks,
Si

Oh - I have checked back and I see that you had posted on this old thread and so had started a new one of your own , as directed. - apologies !!

Good look with your search, I hope you come up with the answers you are looking for.

Dea Xxx

I wonder if this thread has some connection (although from a different poster) ??

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/957850

Dea Xxx

I should add that the ????? thing above was the software here replacing the Greek spelling of 'Louis' with QMs. Dammit, on a genealogy site? That's just daft.

Hi I'm researching on behalf of my wife and father in law. There's an obvious link to Greece (physical) in both of them, and the family apocrypha was that one Anthony Lewis came to Liverpool in the early years of the 20th Century from Greece and stayed.

This, unsurprisingly, turns out to be inaccurate. Said Anthony Lewis (b 1889 as Antonio) was the son of the above George Lewis and wife Jane (possibly nee McAuley or McSweeny, Irish by birth), and the record for the 1891 census shows them living in 27 Aspinall St, Kirkdale, W. Derby, Liverpool, with George as a cotton porter and his wife Jane as a dressmaker. There are also 3 old children: Eugene, 14, born in Ireland, Florence, 10, Helen, 3 and Antonio 1 - the latter 3 born in Liverpool. George is about 52 and Jane 33 at the time of the census. About 12 months later, George was dead, poor sod.

And that's really about it for George Lewis, the Greek who imparted his genes into my wife's side, and therefore is responsible for her rather Greek looks, and, I'm sure her enduring love of yigantes, lobster and haloumi.

I've posted on Rootschat.com, where people have been pretty helpful, but having looked further, George (probably Yiorgos) Lewis (possibly Louis) isn't on the 1881 census, or 1871 census - nor is a Jane McAuley or McSweeney in the right place, so I'm a bit stumped as to where else to look.

I've been in touch with the Greek Orthodox Church in Britain and have been supplied the email for their Liverpool representative, but I've not had a reply from him yet.

So. Can anyone else help? When did George fetch up in Liverpool? Where did he come from in Greece? How come he travelled at, apparently, quite an age? How can I find out more about the rare (I'm told) ????? surname in Greece?

Any help gratefully accepted.

Cheers,
Si