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Still confused!! Not sure if there is 2 James Smith's in the same area! 1841 has The whole family William & Elizabeth & 8 children @ Wick House, 1851 has William,Elizabeth+4 children James not being one of them @ Hawk Inn, but also another page has the Hawk Inn again in 1851 with a Mann Family living there(Hawk Inn) with James as a lodger! 1861 Willaim & Elizabeth+grandson living at Hoe lane. 1871 Has William,Elizabeth + James(unmarried). I know my grandad Harry Smith was born in 1870, so I can understand maybe they wasn't married but does this mean they wasn't living togther either? Where is he in 1861?

Daniel, I just happened to be using SEAX (Essex archives) this morning, on credits for 24 hours.

I found the following, but nothing more than you can already see from the 1841 census that has already been posted.

Baptised Rettendon -
Daniel 25/6//1815 and James 17/3/1820
Parents William and Elizabeth Smith - a butcher

Marriage 19/11/1811 - All Saints, Rettendon
William Smith (bachelor) (a cross for signature) and Elizabeth Kendal (spinster)(signed)

Witnesses: William Green, Elizabeth Smith and Henrater Rolph (well that's what it looks like).

Unfortunately, I need to go out now.

Burial (Find My Past)
Forenames:JAMES
Surname:SMITH
MI Ref:399
Year text:1902
Year:1902
Comments:
Location:Rettendon
Church:All Saints
Denomination:Anglican
County:Essex
Country:England
CD volume:
Record source:Essex Memorial Inscriptions
Data provider:Essex Society for Family History

Burial
Forenames:SUSAN
Surname:SMITH
MI Ref:399
Year text:1901
Year:1901
Comments:
Location:Rettendon
Church:All Saints
Denomination:Anglican
County:Essex
Country:England


http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/EssexAncestors.aspx

(above for Essex Parishes, subscription needed)

Chris :)

I think you may have slipped a generation. Assuming this is the birth of your father

Births Dec 1941 (>99%)
Smith Reginald Nock Chelmsford 4a 1137 Scan available - click to view

Then this is his parents marriage

Marriages Sep 1941 (>99%)
NOCK Constance W Smith Chelmsford 4a 2287
Smith Harry Nock Chelmsford 4a 2287

So, I think this is more likely to be Harry James born 1904?

Regarding James' parents, it is going to be difficult to be sure without the marriage certificate

Jude

Still stuck!! Is there any way to find James Smith Dad without getting a marriage certificate?

Thank you again folks, even more confused! Why did I have to be from a family of Smiths! Doesn't make this easy! I know they lived at Mill Hill Farm for sure but not sure about the other places. :-S

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Mary Ann Barnard Name: Mary Ann Barnard
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1853
Registration District: Chelmsford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 163
Records on Page: Name
Mary Ann Barnard
John Green


Marriages Sep 1857 (>99%)
Barnard Harriett Chelmsford 4a 203
Green Thomas Chelmsford 4a 203



..1861 England Census
about Harriett Green Name: Harriett Green
Age: 26
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1835
Relation: Wife
Spouse's Name: Thomas Green
Gender: Female
Where born: West Hanningfield, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Rettendon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rochester
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Ingatestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 3b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 52
Piece: 1078
Folio: 30
Page Number: 9
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Green 27 (Publican)
Harriett Green 26
Alice Green 1
Catherine Green 2 Months
Elizh Barnard 13>>>>Sister in Law
James Slade 60 (Lodger)
Josef Smee 20 (Lodger)
James Claxon 19 (Lodger)

Another marriage to a "Green"...

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Charles Barnard Name: Charles Barnard
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1860
Registration District: Chelmsford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 207
Records on Page: Name
Charles Barnard
Mary Ann Green


Marriages Jun 1871 (>99%)
Barnard Elizabeth Chelmsford 4a 225
STEER Arthur Chelmsford 4a 225


Household transcription
1911 census

Person: STEER, Elizabeth
Address: 4 Stafford Terrace Stafford Road Wallington

STEER, Arthur Head Married M 74 1837 None Surrey Lingsfield VIEW
STEER, Elizabeth Wife Married41 years F 63 1848 Essex Sth Haningfield VIEW
STEER, J Arthur Son Single M 30 1881 Greengrocer Surrey Croydon VIEW
STEER, Frederick C Son Single M 28 1883 Greengrocer Surrey Croydon VIEW
STEER, Edith E Daughter Single F 24 1887 Draper Assistant Surrey Croydon VIEW
NORRINGTON, Kate L Daughter Married8 years F 33 1878 Assistant In Business Surrey Croydon VIEW
NORRINGTON, Farrina E Granddaughter F 7 1904 Surrey Croydon VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 3426
Reference: RG14PN3426 RG78PN129 RD39 SD6 ED6 SN10
Registration District: Croydon
Sub District: Mitcham
Enumeration District: 6
Parish: Beddington
Address: 4 Stafford Terrace Stafford Road Wallington
County: Surrey
(9 children born, 8 living, 1 had died)


Marriages Dec 1873 (>99%)
Barnard Lucy Chelmsford 4a 313
PERRY John Chelmsford 4a 313



..1881 England Census
about Lucy Perry Name: Lucy Perry
Age: 28
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1853
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: John Perry
Gender: Female
Where born: Chelmsford, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Chignal Smealy
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address: Village Shop
Marital Status: Married
Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Writtle
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1764
Folio: 103
Page Number: 16
Household Members: Name Age
John Perry 39
Lucy Perry 28
Frank Perry 6
John Perry 3
Jane Harvey Perry
Frederick Barnard 1>>>> Nephew


England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915
about Robert Hyde Barnard Name: Robert Hyde Barnard
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1875
Registration District: Chelmsford
Inferred County: Essex
Volume Number: 4a
Page Number: 240
Records on Page: Name
Robert Hyde Barnard
Charlotte Miller


Marriages Sep 1876 (>99%)
BARNARD Albert Epping 4a 139
Jones Emily Jane Epping 4a 139

Found a baptism for Martha...

Martha Barnard, "England Births and Christenings, 1538-1975"Name: Martha Barnard
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 31 May 1840
Christening Place: Stock, Essex, England
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: John Barnard
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Lucy

..1861 England Census
about John Barnard Name: John Barnard
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1809
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Lucy Barnard
Gender: Male
Where born: Kent, England

Civil Parish: South Hanningfield
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Ingatestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 7b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 43
Piece: 1078
Folio: 84
Page Number: 7
Household Members: Name Age
John Barnard 52 (Blacksmith..Master)
Lucy Barnard 49
Martha Barnard 21
Lucy Barnard 11
Susan Barnard 9
Robt Hyde Barnard 7
Albert Barnard 5
George Godfrey 20 (Lodger)



1851 England Census
about John Barnard Name: John Barnard
Age: 40
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Inez Barnard
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Kent, England

Civil Parish: South Hanningfield
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability: View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Ingatestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 5a
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Schedule Number: 20
Piece: 1775
Folio: 100
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
John Barnard 40 (Blacksmith)
Inez Barnard 39 >>>>Lucy on the image
M Ann Barnard 19
Harriet Barnard 17
Charles Barnard 13
Martha Barnard 11
John Barnard 7
Catharine Barnard 6
Elizabeth Barnard 3
Inez Barnard 1 >>>>Lucy on the image
Mathew Winn 23 (Journeyman)
Charles Dawson 16 (Apprentice)



..1841 England Census
about John Barnard Name: John Barnard
Age: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1811
Gender: Male
Where born: Essex, England
[Kent, England]

Civil Parish: Stock
Hundred: Chelmsford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Ingatestone
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 326
Book: 8
Folio: 15
Page Number: 24
Household Members: Name Age
John Inglish 45
George Inglish 17
Mary Inglish 14
Elza Inglish 10
Robert Inglish 8
Joseph Inglish 4

Looking at the image....The Inglish family are seperate from the Barnard's.

John Barnard 30 (Blacksmith)
Lucy Barnard 25
Mary Barnard 9
Harriot Barnard 7
Charles Barnard 3
Martha Barnard 1

Hi

Your Great Grandfather lest a Will


England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966

Name:James Smith <<Of Mill Hill Farm, Rettendon

Probate Date:5 Apr 1902

Death Date:21 Jan 1902

Death Place:Essex, England

Registry:London, England

Probate to: Harry Smith Barnard, farmer, effects: £1112 0s 7d


You can apply for a copy of the Will, cost £6.00 using the link below


http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/probate

Brother George...

Household transcription
1911 census

Person: SMITH, George
Address: Rettendon Common Chelmsford Essex

SMITH, George Head Married M 26 1885 Farm Labourer East Hanningfield Essex VIEW
SMITH, Lily Wife Married7 years F 27 1884 Romford Essex VIEW
SMITH, George Son M 7 1904 School Romford Essex VIEW
SMITH, Jessie Daughter F 6 1905 School Romford Essex VIEW
SMITH, Percy Son M 5 1906 School Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Edward Son M 4 1907 Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Thomas Son M 4 1907 Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Lily Daughter F 2 1909 Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Helen Daughter F 1 1910 Rettendon Essex VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 10039
Reference: RG14PN10039 RG78PN528 RD194 SD1 ED8 SN33
Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Rettendon
Address: Rettendon Common Chelmsford Essex
County: Essex
(7 children born and living)

His family.


1851 census transcription details for: Hawk Inn, Rettendon
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: HO107
Piece: 1775
Folio: 39
Page: 7
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 2B
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Hawk Inn, Rettendon
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, William Head Married M 63 1788 Ag Lab
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Elizabeth Wife Married F 56 1795
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Daniel Son Unmarried M 31 1820
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, David Son Unmarried M 19 1832 Journeyman Painter
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, George Son M 12 1839 Ag Lab
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Ellen Daughter F 15 1836 At Home
Rettendon, Essex


1861 census transcription details for: ..., Hoe Lane, Rettendon
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG09
Piece: 1078
Folio: 29
Page: 8
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: 1 Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 3 M
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: ..., Hoe Lane, Rettendon
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, William Head Married M 73 1788 Labourer
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Eliza Wife Married F 60 1801
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Henry Grandson M 14 1847 Shoemaker
Stambridge, Essex


1871 census transcription details for: By Chelmsford Road, Rettendon
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 1660
Folio: 32
Page: 9
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 3B
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: By Chelmsford Road, Rettendon
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
SMITH, William Head M 83 1788 Essex
SMITH, Elizabeth Wife F 76 1795 Essex
SMITH, James Son M 48 1823 Essex

Hi Daniel

So this would be Harry in the 1911 census.........

Household transcription
1911 census

Person: SMITH, Harry
Address: Mill Hill Farm Rettendon Common Chelmsford Essex

SMITH, Harry Head Married M 40 1871 Farmer And Hay Dealer Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Florence Jane Wife Married10 years F 35 1876 Wickham St Pauls Suffolk VIEW
SMITH, Harry James Son M 7 1904 School Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Archibald Thomas Son M 6 1905 School Rettendon Essex VIEW
SMITH, Edward Son M 0 (11 MONTHS) 1911 Rettendon Essex VIEW
FISHER, Jane Servant Single F 15 1896 General Servant Domestic Petsea Essex VIEW
RG number: RG14
Piece: 10039
Reference: RG14PN10039 RG78PN528 RD194 SD1 ED8 SN62
Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Enumeration District: 8
Parish: Rettendon
Address: Mill Hill Farm Rettendon Common Chelmsford Essex
County: Essex
(3 children born and living)

I think it would be in your best interest to purchase a copy of James and Susan's marriage certificate, in the hope that it will give you information regarding James's Father.

Smith is such a common name.........i wouldn't want you to follow the wrong family.

Prickles.

Wow!! Thank you everyone thats a lot of information very quickly.
My Dad is Reg Smith born 1941 in Rettendon at Mill Hill Farm, His Dad was Harry Smith born 1870 married to Florence, his Dad was James Smith born I think 1820 died 1902. I'm told that they was horse dealers and farmers! Was trying to find out where James might have lived and who his parents were, where they lived and from? I know there is another Smith Family in Rettendon making things compilcated!

1871 census transcription details for: By Chelmsford Road, Rettendon
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG10
Piece: 1660
Folio: 31
Page: 8
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 3B
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: By Chelmsford Road, Rettendon
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation Where Born
BARNARD, John Head M 60 1811 Kent
BARNARD, Lucy Wife F 59 1812 Essex
BARNARD, Elizabeth Daughter F 23 1848 Essex
>>BARNARD, Susan Daughter F 20 1851 Essex
BARNARD, Robert H Son M 17 1854 Essex
BARNARD, Albert Son M 15 1856 Essex
>>BARNARD, Harry S Daughter F 0 1871 he is 11 months Essex
BARNARD, Alice Daughter F 0 1871 she is 3 months Surrey


Harry and Alice are both 'granddaughters.'

Hi Daniel and welcome to the boards.

Who did your Grt Grandfather marry and what were the names of their children.

Which child of your Grt Grandparents was your Grandparent?

Perhaps we can then work backwards without guessing.

Prickles.

Birth of son Harry:

Births Jun 1870 (>99%)
Barnard Harry Smith Chelmsford 4a 192

Looks like James & Susan were living together before marriage.

???

Marriages Dec 1874 (>99%)
BARNARD Susan Chelmsford 4a 344
Smith James Chelmsford 4a 344

???
Births Dec 1851 (>99%)
Barnard Susan Chelmsford 12 50

???


1891 England Census about James Smith
Name: James Smith
Age: 70
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susan Smith
Gender: Male
Where born: Rettendon, Essex, England

Civil Parish: Rettendon
Ecclesiastical parish: Rettendon
Town: Rettendon
County/Island: Essex
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status:

View Image

Registration District: Chelmsford
Sub-registration District: Ingatestone
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1384
Folio: 28
Page Number: 10
Household Members:
Name Age
James Smith 70
Susan Smith 40
Harry Smith 20
Nellie Smith 15
George Smith 5

Possibly this one.


1901 census transcription details for: Mill Hill Farm, Rettendon, Village
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG13
Piece: 1669
Folio: 27
Page: 10
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: All Saints
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Mill Hill Farm, Rettendon, Village
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, James Head Married M 82 1819 Farmer
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Jascan Wife Married F 52 1849
Stock, Essex
SMITH, Harry Son Married M 31 1870 Farmer's Son
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Florence Daughter-In-Law Married F 26 1875
Wickam St Pauls, Suffolk
SMITH, George Son Single M 16 1885 Farmer's Son
E Hanningfield, Essex




1891 census transcription details for: Great Common, Rettendon
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National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG12
Piece: 1384
Folio: 28
Page: 10
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: Rettendon
Enum. District: 3
Ecclesiastical District: Rettendon
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: Great Common, Rettendon
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, James Head Married M 70 1821 Farmer And Dealer
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Susan Wife Married F 40 1851
South Hanningfield, Essex
SMITH, Harry Son Single M 20 1871 Farmer & Dealers Son
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Nellie Daughter Single F 15 1876
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, George Son M 5 1886 Scholar
East Hanningfield, Essex




1881 census transcription details for: ?, East Hanningfield
Print Close

National Archive Reference:
RG number: RG11
Piece: 1760
Folio: 60
Page: 1
Reg. District: Chelmsford
Sub District: Ingatestone
Parish: East Hanningfield
Enum. District:
Ecclesiastical District:
City/Municipal Borough:
Address: ?, East Hanningfield
County: Essex
Name Relation Condition Sex Age Birth Year Occupation , Disability Where Born
SMITH, James Head Married M 40 1841 Dealer Gen
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Susan Wife Married F 33 1848
Sth Hanningfield, Essex
SMITH, Harry Son Single M 11 1870
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, James Son Single M 8 1873
Rettendon, Essex
SMITH, Helen Daughter Single F 5 1876
Rettendon, Essex
COOPER, Samuel Servant Single M 17 1864
Rettendon, Essex


Does look like 40 years old on the census. Shaved a good few years off his age??