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Just wondering if he could be "our" John George´s father. in which case it might be possible to find young John George on a census.

Should have checked this out earlier - Flip looks like you were correct if this little thread works out :-)

Elizabeth Gertrude Coward married Henry Rodgers in 1883

Marriages Mar 1883 (>99%)
COWARD Gertrude Sheffield 9c 503
RODGERS Henry Sheffield 9c 503

He died in 1898

Deaths Dec 1898 (>99%)
Rodgers Henry 38 Sheffield 9c 327

Then she married John George Ellis in 1903......

He died in 1904...

And this is her in 1911

Name: Edith Ellis
Age in 1911: 7
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1904
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil Parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire-West Riding
Country: England
Street Address: 92 Granville Lane Sheffield
Registration District: Sheffield
Registration District Number: 510
Sub-registration District: Sheffield Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Piece: 27896
Household Members:
Name Age
Gertrude Ellis 45
Edith Ellis 7
Harry Rodgers 21

So.....we really do now need input from Moira.

How do you know Phyllis Mary's parents?

Jude

I traced the same info Jude - but like you can't find George Chadwick either - but then again we have no real ideas of their ages.

Ancestry is linking to this death for Phyllis, but I've not checked it out:

Phyllis Mary Havenhand
Birth Date: 11 Mar 1919
Date of Registration: Jun 2002
Age at Death: 83
Registration District: Sheffield
Inferred County: Yorkshire
Register Number: A76A
District and Subdistrict: 0481A
Entry number: 115

There's a death for George Chadwick in 1909 but can't find a widowed Sarah E in 1911 :-(

There's a marriage in 1939 in Sheffield of a Mary Ellis to Havenhand...so if she dropped the Phyllis at marriage it works.

with two daughters from that marriage....

Moira...we really really need you to come back!

If your friend is related to Phyllis Mary then we really need to know HOW she came to the parents you give because I really don't think they are correct. But we are all just surmising at the moment!

Jude

Moira

Have you and your friend just latched on to the 1903 marriage because of the surnames and location?

Have you given any thought to the possibility that the mother had been married before?

Phyllis's birth was, after all, shortly after the end of WW1....................

Also, parents don't necessarily marry in the same area as that in which they go on to have children.............

EDIT

It seems to have been proved conclusively that in 1903 Ellis and Barker did not marry each other

Numerous Ellis/Barker marriages in West Yorks

This is one I wondered about

Marriages Dec 1913 (>99%)
Barker Laura Ellis Ecclesall B. 9c 753
Ellis James F Barker Ecclesall B. 9c 753

If Phyllis is a direct relative, investing in her birth cert would be the sensible course of action.

A pity your friend didn't think to ask for it as a Christmas gift

Yes Reggie...that's the one I was gravitating towards!

Jude

There's a tree on ancestry with Phyllis married to George Havenhand. It gives her parents as James Ellis and Lily Cavendish Barker - but no details on them.

Nothing on freebmd to back up those details, Flip.....but, as we know, Ancestry trees are notoriously unreliable

That family tree can be traced back to one of the daughters of Phyllis and George

Jude

Strange though, she seems to know Lily's birthday (6 May), but not the birth year - maybe just remember's her.

I'm not going to use any more time on this until the OP returns, and answers the questions posed.

Yes all...VERY frustrating that we are talking to ourselves :-)

Jude

I've had a PM from Moira apologising for not getting back to her thread, but she has been out all day. I'm sure she'll go through our findings and answer when she's feeling up to it.

Why send a PM.......why not add the explanation to the thread?

I'm sure that everyone who tried to help would have appreciated being considered.

Cut a bit of slack Reggie, Moira has not had a good day (personal reasons which I won't go into) - she'll be back soon.

Moira - thanks for your pm. Take your time to digest all this, speak to your friend and come back to us when you can!

Flip :-)

Jude

Moira - thanks for your pm. Take your time to digest all this, speak to your friend and come back to us when you can!

Flip :-)

Jude

Hello all, thank you for the kind words, hope to get news in a day or two after the new year.
I have been going through paperwork that my friend has and the info. I was given was wrong, so I am sorry to have waisted every ones time on it.
the correct info. I found was that
Phylis Mary Ellis Married George Havenhand in Sheffield 1939
Philiss father was James F Ellis mother poss Lilly or Laura Barker

Well that was the marriage I posted.......and which you haven't acknowledged


I'm pleased that you thought some of the helpers were worthy of PM's