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Thanks, Jax. That's good to know.

I think you researchers are wonderful. <3

Great Barr comes under that registration district...or did

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wednesbury.html

I NOW HAVE A COPY OF RAYMOND'S BIRTH CERTIFICATE IN MY OWN HANDS AND I SEE THAT HE WAS INDEED BORN IN BIRMINGHAM, IN GREAT BARR, BUT HIS MOM REGISTERED HIM IN WEDNESBURY. WAS SHE VISITING FAMILY AT THE TIME? :-D

linking to that thread for the info of anyone who would like to find it

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1338694

so he was the Raymond noted by Mike back at the beginning of this thread

THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH. FINALLY WE'VE FOUND 'OUR' RAYMOND. HE WASN'T BORN IN BIRMINGHAM AT ALL BUT IN WEDNESBURY. WE NOW HAVE HIS BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

NOW HIS MOTHER, ROSE ALICE BRIGGS, IS STILL A MYSTERY . I HAVE BEGUN A POST FOR HER. <3 :-D

I have just had word that the Raymond Jones born in the third quarter of 1940 in Birmingham is NOT our Ray, so perhaps the mother went 'back home' to have him, wherever that might be. I'm hoping that someone on Genes who is on Ray's mother's side will be looking for him.

We haven't come to a full stop, but it doesn't look so promising.

Dianne

Thank you all so much.

jansmith I was looking at that same marriage and death last night and they do seem quite like our situation

the only Jessie A Davis born 1899-1902 was Leeds Q2 1902 ... if she died in June 1948 after her 1948 birthday she would still only have been 46 rather than 47, but of course people registering deaths did not always know the exact age

Porkie Pie's suggestion that the 'short birth certificate' was the one in the name French makes perfect sense

It seems to me that since the death record does state a date of birth, the thing to do is apply for the certificate that seems to match and specify either the date of birth or the father's name

or as I said, just apply for it to see what it says, because we have to remember that even people's absolute certainty about facts doesn't always mean those facts are accurate :-)

since the registration district where the birth was registered also can't be known for sure, with the name and date of birth you could still apply for a certificate

https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/most_customers_want_to_know.asp#OrderingCertificates4

Q4. If I don’t have the index reference number what will happen?

If you do not have the GRO index reference you may still apply online for any event which took place on or after 1st July 1837 to 6 months from the current date (for marriages this period is extended to 18 months) provided you have sufficient information to identify the entry. A 3 year search for the index reference will be carried out. You should supply the exact date of event if you have it. If you don't have the exact date, enter 01/01/YYYY and we will search the specified year and one year either side. If you do not provide an index reference number, your application will take up to 15 working days to process.

Yes, I've been in contact with Heather. She says she doesn't know of a middle name.
Now if his mother went ourside Birmingham then I wouldn't know and there's no one who can tell us.

Are you in touch with Anthony Jones who has Raymond Jones 1940 and Heather Jones who has Raymond French 1940 and two of his children born 1971/74 and Raymond Jones 1940.

Maryb.

Could he have also been born in the Birmingham area rather than Birmingham its self?

I don't think the short certificate is a short birth certificate,


Dianne 22 Feb 2014 00:45
"I don't know that he was registered as Jones, but, although he really didn't know much about those few years alone with his father after his mother died, he did know that he was Raymond Jones."

If he "remembers" his name as Jones then it looks like this short cert is in fact his adoption certificate and not a short birth certificate

Roy

Get his wife to find the 'short' cert..............the DOB will be on it, as will his FULL names

Use the info to get a copy of the 'long' cert...........then you will be looking for info based on facts

Don't place too much reliance of childhood memories of ages etc.....................time plays tricks.

I'd always thought that my mother died when I was 6 - when I started researching, I found that it was, in fact, when I was 7.

After Raymond's mother died his father kept him for a time but he couldn't cope and the French family offered to adopt him. I believe that he was about six when they first met him so his Mother must have died in 1945 or a bit earlier.

?? marriage

Name:
George H Jones
Spouse :Jessie A Davis
Date of Registration:
Apr-May-Jun 1936
Registration district:Southwark
Inferred County:Surrey
Volume Number:1d
Page Number:199



Name:
Raymond G Jones
Mother's Maiden Surname:
Davis
Date of Registration:
Oct-Nov-Dec 1940
Registration district:
Birmingham

??death

Name:
Jessie A Jones
Birth Date:abt 1901
Date of Registration:Jun 1948
Age at Death:47
Registration district:Birmingham
Inferred County:Warwickshire
Volume:9c
Page:93

but whatever info is on it would be enough to order his long form birth certificate !

specifically the exact name and date and place of birth


to recap

Raymond was born in 1940

he was 9 when he was adopted - 1949-50

he lived for a few years with his father after his mother died

so his mother died in the early to mid 1940s ?

does anyone know why Raymond was then adopted, for instance did his father also die ?

Yes. I understand his wife has seen it, but it seems that there wasn't much info. on it.

Has anyone ever seen this short birth cert? or does anyone have it now?

Thanks for the additional information Porkie Pie. I understand that Raymond's mother was the best thing that ever happened to George Jones. Too bad she died so young.

I don't know that he was registered as Jones, but, although he really didn't know much about those few years alone with his father after his mother died, he did know that he was Raymond Jones.

you're right Porkie Pie, I always look automatically at Freebmd just by clicking the page number which you can't do at Ancestry anymore ...

there doesn't seem to be a corresponding registration in the name Davis though so perhaps that is not the right birth ... but it is the only one available !

I wonder whether, although Mr Jones was his father, he was not registered in his father's name ... is it certain that he was registered with surname Jones ?