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Melissa
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13 Apr 2014 23:58 |
I am trying to find a trace on the family named above. I have a record of Frederick and his children (Edith, Alice, Gertrude, Ethel and Frederick A) in the 1901 census, Frederick Snr is noted as being a widower. He remarries in 1902 to an Elizabeth Camption and in 1911, they are living with Frederick jnr in Kent. The 1911 census shows them as being married for 17 years (when they only been married for 9) and seemingly passing Fred Jnr off as their own.
Fred Jnr's birth cert shows his parents as Frederick and Edith (nee Cooper) Barke. I can find no trace of her death cert and I cannot find a trace of them in earlier censuses (either as their family, nor Frederick in his family pre-marriage). I have a possible trace in the 1871 census, showing a Frederick (of the right age), Son to Sarah (Head of family), sibling Elizabeth, Sarah, Ellen, Louis and Jane. I need to get a good trace on him to try and place him in my tree. I have looked under all variants and have even tried to look for them living under her maiden name.
Does any of this mean anything to anyone? All help gratefully received.
TIA. Missie
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jax
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14 Apr 2014 00:19 |
Is this them?
1911 England Census about Frederick Barke Name: Frederick Barke Age in 1911: 55 Estimated birth year: abt 1856 Relation to Head: Head Gender: Male Birth Place: Chelsea, London, England Civil Parish: Whitstable Urban County/Island: Kent Country: England Street address: Caroline Villa, 71 Regent Street, Whitstable, Kent Marital Status: Married Occupation: Town Beadle Registration district: Blean Sub-registration district: Whitstable Frederick Barke 55 Caroline Barke 60 Frederick Arthur Barke 16
so her name was Caroline not Elizabeth
Marriages Dec 1902 (>99%)
Barke Frederick Islington 1b 563 Campion Caroline Elizabeth Islington 1b 563
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Sylvia
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14 Apr 2014 00:27 |
could this be them
about Frederick Barke
Name: Frederick Barke
Age: 34
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Edith Barke Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, London, England
Civil Parish: St John the Evangalist Westminster
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: London Country: England Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: St George Hanover Square
Sub-registration district: St John Westminster
ED, institution, or vessel: 11 Neighbors: View others on page Piece: 79 Folio: 90A Page Number: 1 Household Members:
Name Age Frederick Barke 34 Edith Barke 32 Edith Barke 13 Anie Barke 11 Gertrude Barke 7 Ethel Barke 3
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Sylvia
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14 Apr 2014 00:32 |
about Frederick Barke
Name: Frederick Barke
Age: 44
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Chelsea
Civil Parish: Lambeth
Ecclesiastical parish: St Stephen South Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Education:
Employment status:
View image
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Kennington First
ED, institution, or vessel: 20
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 415 Folio: 98 Page Number: 24 Household schedule number: 198 Household Members:
Name
Age
Frederick Barke 44 Edith Barke 23 Alice Barke 21 Gertrude Barke 18 Ethel Barke 10 Frederick
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Sylvia
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14 Apr 2014 00:34 |
Before Frederick married
about Frederick Barke
Name: Frederick Barke
Age: 15
Estimated birth year: abt 1856 Relation: Son Mother's name: Sarah Barke
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsea, Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: Chelsea
Ecclesiastical parish: Old Church
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Chelsea
Sub-registration district: Chelsea, South ED, institution, or vessel: 6 Household schedule number: 210 Piece: 74 Folio: 51 Page Number: 30 Household Members: Name
Age
Sarah Barke 42 Elizabeth Barke 19 Sarah Barke 17 Frederick Barke 15 Ellen Barke 13 Louis Barke 10 Jane
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Sylvia
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14 Apr 2014 00:49 |
Possible marriage
. .
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Frederick Barke
Name: Frederick Barke
Spouse Name: Edith Cooper
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Mar 1877
Parish: Newington St Mary
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: Frederick Barke
Spouse Father: Alfred Langford Cooper
Register Type:
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Barry
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14 Apr 2014 03:37 |
According to an Ancestry tree Frederick's parents were Louis Barke b 1824 and Sarah Clarke who married in 1851 Kensington. Louis died in 1865 You can view this tree is this free link
https://www.mundia.com/gb
This info matches the "possible" in 1871 census in your own research
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 09:26 |
6 Barke children all baptised on the same day.........
London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Frederick Barke Name:Frederick Barke Record Type:Baptism Baptism Date:22 Mar 1866 Father's Name:Louis Barke (Painter) Deceased Mother's name:Sarah Barke Res: 10 Lower George Street. Parish or Poor Law Union:Chelsea St Jude Borough:Kensington and Chelsea Register Type:Parish Registers
Also on the page...
Sarah Ellen Louis Jane Alice.......
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Alice Barke Name:Alice Barke Estimated birth year:abt 1865 Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1867 Age at Death:2 Registration district:Chelsea Inferred County:London Volume:1a Page:135
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 09:38 |
1851 England Census about Louis Bark Name:Louis Bark[Louis Barke] Age:27 Estimated birth year:abt 1824 Relation:Head Spouse's Name:Sarah Bark Gender:Male Where born: Middlesex, England Civil Parish:St George Hanover Square Ecclesiastical parish:Belgrave County/Island:Middlesex Country:England
Street address: 4 St George's Row Registration district:St George Hanover Square Sub-registration district:Belgrave
Household Members:
Louis Bark 27 (Painter) Sarah Bark 24
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Sarah Clarke Name:Sarah Clarke Date of Registration:Jan-Feb-Mar 1851 Registration district:Kensington Inferred County: London Volume Number:3 Page Number:269
Records on Page:
Sarah Clarke Louis Barke
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MarieCeleste
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14 Apr 2014 09:46 |
The father's name on both of his marriages is given as Frederick. However, if his father died when he was very young then he may not have known his name and therefore assumed it was the same as his own.
I also looked at that multiple baptism and think the father's occupation is "painter" (not printer) which is consistent with the occupation on the marriages.
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 09:53 |
Transcribed as "Burke" on the 1861........
1861 England Census about Sarah Burke Name:Sarah Burke Age:33 Estimated birth year:1828 Relation:Wife Spouse's Name:Louisa Burke Gender:Female Where born:Laughton, Buckinghamshire, England Civil Parish:Chelsea Ecclesiastical parish:St Jude County/Island:Middlesex Country:England Street address: 10 St George Registration district:Chelsea Sub-registration district:Chelsea South
Household Members:
Louisa Burke 37 (Painter) Sarah Burke 33 Elizabeth Burks 9 Sarah Burks 7 Frederick Burks 5 Ellen Burks 3 Louis Burks 6/12
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Louis Barke Name:Louis Barke Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1865 Registration district:St George Hanover Square Inferred County:London Volume:1a Page:210
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 09:57 |
You are correct Marie.
Fathers occupation on the baptism records is "Painter"......I have edited.
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 10:21 |
London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Elizabeth Barke (Spinster) 4 Marlborough Square Estimated birth year:abt 1852 Age:21 Spouse Name:Eugene William Corani (Bachelor) Clark....2 Draycott Street Spouse Age:24 Record Type:Marriage Event Date:30 Nov 1873 Parish:Chelsea St Luke Borough:Kensington and Chelsea Father Name:Louis Barke (Painter) Deceased Spouse Father:William Corani (Proffesor of Music) Register Type:Parish Register Witnesses: J E Hole and Annie Meredith
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Sarah Barke Name:Sarah Barke Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1877 Registration district:St George Hanover Square Inferred County:London Volume Number:1a Page Number:732
Records on Page: Sarah Barke Thomas Chalmers
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Ellen Barke Name:Ellen Barke Date of Registration:Oct-Nov-Dec 1879 Registration district:St George Hanover Square Inferred County:London Volume Number:1a Page Number:821
Records on Page: Ellen Barke William Chalmers
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 10:45 |
England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index, 1837-1915 about Louis Barke Name:Louis Barke Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1891 Registration district:Tendring Inferred County:Essex Volume Number:4a Page Number:625 Records on Page: Louis Barke Emily Gilbert
1911 England Census about Louis Barke Name:Louis Barke Age in 1911:50 Estimated birth year:abt 1861 Relation to Head:Head Gender:Male Birth Place:Chelsea, London, England Civil Parish:Great Clacton County/Island:Essex Country:England Street address :Cemetery Lodge, Cemetery Rd, Great Clacton, Essex Marital Status:Married Occupation:Naval Pensioner Caretaker Registration district:Tendring Registration District Number:197 Sub-registration district:Clacton
Household Members:
Louis Barke 50 Emily Barke 42 Emily Rosie Barke 18 Ada Lilian Barke 16
(3 children born, 2 living, 1 had died)
England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007 about Louis Barke Name:Louis Barke Birth Date:abt 1860 Date of Registration:Dec 1924 Age at Death:64 Registration district:Tendring Inferred County:Essex Volume:4a Page:677
England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations), 1858-1966 about Louis Barke Name:Louis Barke Probate Date:26 Feb 1925 Death Date:4 Oct 1924 Death Place:Essex, England Registry:Ipswich
Of Corin Bocking Elm, Great Clacton, Essex.
To Emily Barke widow.
Effects: £323 12s 11d
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PricklyHolly
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14 Apr 2014 12:06 |
Probably the child who died....
England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 about Louis Frederick Barke Name:Louis Frederick Barke Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1893 Registration district: Tendring Inferred County:Essex Volume:4a Page:561
England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index, 1837-1915 about Louis Frederick Barke Name:Louis Frederick Barke Estimated birth year:abt 1893 Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1893 Age at Death:0 Registration district:Tendring Inferred County:Essex Volume:4a Page:331
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Melissa
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14 Apr 2014 12:54 |
Oh you are all fab! I really didn't expect such prompt replies! And you've sorted out some others for me too :-D
Jax, Caroline is his second wife. I would like to think that she (Edith) did actually die (haven't found a death cert yet) but as no-one in the family knew about Edith, Frederick Jnr was passed off as Caroline's and in fact Frederick's son had no idea that she wasn't his real grandmother, I am wondering if there is more to the story than meets the eye.
Now I just have to work out whereabouts Louis fits on the tree (I think he is a sibling of my ancestor).
Thank you so much, again.
Missie
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jax
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14 Apr 2014 14:17 |
Yes I know that Caroline was his second wife, but as you didnt give any dates and said her name was Elizabeth it was not so easy to find them straight away.
Not seeing a death either....maybe she just went missing and after so many years she was presumed dead? so he was allowed to re marry
There are plenty of unknown people on the death registers
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Melissa
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15 Apr 2014 12:19 |
Oh I'd hate to think of her as an unknown death!
These are a bit of mystery (although there are a few within the Barke Family!!) There are largish gaps between some of the children which could well indicate deceased siblings that I have yet to tie in with the family, but I am beginning to wonder, given that Caroline was passed off as mother and grandmother and no mention was ever made of Edith, if there is something more afoot. The sisters were also never know of by Frederick Jnr and subsequent family. I am beginning to wonder if an asylum is involved, which could explain possible gaps, also why the girls are with their father when they were younger and why the denial of Edith in later years. I'm not sure where to look for those records. I love a good mystery, just hope I can solve it though, even partly! :-S
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Ricochet
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15 Apr 2014 13:14 |
How did Frederick describe his status when he married Caroline?
Do you have Frederick jnr's birth certificate?
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PricklyHolly
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15 Apr 2014 14:04 |
Hi Melissa
If you are considering an Asylum.........you might want to take into consideration that institutions very often listed inmates just using initials instead of full names.
I have searched for an E B.........on the 1901 and 1911 census and there are quite a few to choose from!
Prickles.
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