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Good luck with your research - it certainly isn't an easy family!

To one and all in this thread.
Thanks a million for your much appreciated input.
Kind Regards,
Mal

Don't think there would be an official name change - many children simply assumed the name of a stepfather. They are all with Julia (but she is recorded as Stella) Josling in 1871 with her widowed sister in Liverpool. It is possible to amend a birth registration to change father's name, but this is not the case here, none of her children were re-registered.

If Julia wanted to obliterate all links to Richard, it is quite likely they took on the Josling name. Even the oldest daughter, Stella, married under Josling - and she would have been old enough to have known her previous surname when Julia re-married.

Julia was a schoolmistress, so may have wanted to hide the secret to appear respectable.

I agree that he married Julia bigamously . The reason why I said Derbyshire is the reference in the Jersey story on ancestry.com. In the 1851 census he's 40 should be 47.
I'm a Jocelyn and think I should have been a Webster. How do I substantiate the name change.

Apologies for my inexperience. Still got the L plates on with all of this

The 1851 census shows Richard as born in Hull, not Derbyshire. The 1871 shows him again born Hull, it's the same person as the one who died in Jersey as 2 grandchildren are with him.

Looking at both marriage certificates, Richard's signature was very similar, as were his details - so it's a possibility he was the same man, getting married bigamously. Something happened between the christenings of their children and Julia getting married again.

If the first marriage was valid, she should have married under the name of Webster & a widow (or divorcee) - but married as Smith a spinster- there must be a reason for this.

Am I right In saying there are two (2) Richard Webster's. The Richard born in 1804 Derby, England who died In Jersey with Sarah and the Richard who was born in 1811 Hull, England and was on the 1851 census with a Sarah.
In the 1841 census Sarah Clayton was (15) fifteen living at home with father John.
In the 1851 census this Sarah is (27) married to Richard (40) and having the same children as the Richard who died in Jersey. Confused :

But we don't have any conclusive proof that they were both the same Richard! Even though it does look likely - but we never found them together.

Sorry. Just throwing a spanner in the works if only to cast doubt ;-)

Nice one JL

:-)

The story concerning their deaths is accurate.

From the Mont a l'Abbe cemetery records

Richard Webster aged 94, died 11th Feb 1898 and was buried 14th Feb
Sarah Clayton, widow of Richard Webster, died the 16th Feb 1907 aged 85 years, buried 18th Feb

I'm thinking this is her death:


Julia Stella Oxford
Estimated birth year:abt 1835
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1908
Age at Death:73
Registration district:Uxbridge
Inferred County:Middlesex
Volume:3a
Page:29

Also, there is a family story on ancestry.com which shows Richard Webster passed away 11/2/1898 at Corinth House St Helier - and Sarah 16/2/1907 also in Jersey - but I've no idea if this is right.

Think she was quite liberal with her age, given that her husband was considerably younger! As can be seen from the 1901 census.

John Smith is the father of Julia as stated on the marriage certificate of Julia and John Oxford 1895. John Smith is a civil engineer and she states she is (50) fifty meaning d.o.b. 1945??????

Thank you all very much.
What a web of intrigue and no wonder I couldn't progress any further but now with your much appreciated information I can proceed onward and upward or backward as in this case may be. I will keep you posted as to my progress.
Cheers and thanks again,
Mal

Sarah is back with her dad John Clayton in 1871 in Manningham - still stating married and under Webster. She wasn't with John in 1861 though - so not sure where she was.

Flip, I agree, he was a naughty boy!




1871 England Census

Name:Richard Webster

Age:67

Estimated birth year:abt 1804

Relation:Head

Gender:Male

Where born:Hull, Yorkshire, England

Civil Parish:Southowram

Ecclesiastical parish:St Anne

Town:Southowram

County/Island:Yorkshire

Registration district:Halifax

Sub-registration district:Southowram

ED, institution, or vessel:1

Household schedule number:78

Piece:4388

Folio:11

Page Number:16

Household Members:

Richard Webster 67
Mark Fawcett 28
Elizabeth Fawcett 26
Sarah Shan 24
William Woodhouse 3
Richard Clayton Woodhouse


He's listed himself as a Farmer of 30 acres

This is odd?


1881 Channel Islands Census

Name:Richard Webster

Age:77

Estimated birth year:abt 1804

Relation:Head

Spouse's Name:Sarah Webster

Gender:Male

Where born:England

Civil Parish:St Helier

County/Island:Jersey

Country:Channel Islands

Street address:2 Richmond Villa

Occupation:Retired Leather Merchant

Registration district:Jersey

Sub-registration district:G

ED, institution, or vessel:50

Piece:5616

Folio:31

Page Number:2

Household Members:

Richard Webster 77
Sarah Webster 59
Arthur W.W. Woodhouse 13
Eliza Speddings 30
Mary Jane Nicolle 44

I think Richard & Sarah are in Jersey in 1881/91 - he is a retired leather merchant. I wonder if he was naughty and married Julia bigamously, but got back with wife? Can't spot them 1861/71 though, although 2 of the children are with an aunt in Derbyshire.

Hence her reverting to maiden name on second marriage and stating she was single - if the first marriage wasn't legal, then she gave the correct status.

I've added to the above census.

Note that son Robert was born in Dublin, this ties in with father Richard, giving his address on the marriage to Julia as Dublin