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Thank you Gins and thank you mgnv for all this information.

Yes John Thomas Woodward was born 16 March 1879 Newport, as you rightly said he fibbed about his year of birth but not the date.

We also have a photograph of John in what was the Trans Vaal South Africa, this was prior to him living in America.

This we think is John's outward passage.


Name: Jno Woodward
Gender: Male
Age: 24
Birth Date: abt 1878
Departure Date: 19 Nov 1902
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Cape Town, South Africa
Ship Name: Corinthic

Lesley x

A search at:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/canadian-expeditionary-force.aspx
gets Herb's attestation papers:
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/683658a.gif
http://data2.archives.ca/cef/gpc018/683658b.gif
Name:WOODWARD, HERBERT ALEX
Regimental Number:472873
Date of Birth:22/02/1895
Reference: RG 150, Accession 1992-93/166, Box 10569 - 11
Item Number:321998

He attested 24/12/1915

You should search again abt 18m from now - by then his full service record should be online. They've done all the Athertons I've checked, but Woodward's a long way down the alphabet from them.

The 46th battalion was one of 4 bns in the 10th Brigade, which was one of 3 bdes in the 4th Canadian Division.
In addition to its main infantry component, a division had several specialized units, like the 11th, 12th & 13th Field Ambulance companies.
From April 1917, the 4 divs of the Canadian Corps had been used together as shocj troops, along with the ANZACs.

CWGC say:
NINE ELMS BRITISH CEMETERY
The cemetery was begun and used by the 3rd Australian and 44th Casualty Clearing Stations when they moved to Poperinghe (now Poperinge), from Brandhoek and Lijssenthoek respectively, in September 1917. Nearly all the burials in Plots I to IX came from these Casualty Clearing Stations, whilst they operated in this area during the 1917 Battle of Ypres, up until December 1917.

When you get his service record, you can check on what his unit was doing day-by-day via:
http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/Pages/war-diaries.aspx
The Canadians launched their first attack in the final push to capture Passchendaele in the eatly morning of 26/10/1917.
The 46th attacked along the E side of the Ravebeek, normally a small strea mabt 3m wide, but, due to shelling wrecking the drainage, was now flooded 300m wide in places. The whole area was very muddy, but the valley of the Ravebeek was impassible (except on duckboard pathways).
No troops could operate in the valley, so there was a 700m gap in the Canadian attacking line,
I've not checked what happened to the 46th, but I did once check the war diaries for the 58th bn.
This was the unit operating on the 46th's left, just across the valley. Their attack stalled. This allowed the Germans across the valey to fire into the flank of the 44th, which presumably caused them problems and casualties.
The German front line in this area wasn't a trench-line - the mud would have made this a poor choice. The front line consisted of multiple pill boxes made of concrete 5 foot thick. Only a direct hit from an 8" howitzer could pierce this, but a near miss could tipple the pillbox into a shell crater.

The guy I was following in the 58th got wounded, so I looked at the medical arrangements. It was quite interesting. Quite extensive planning went into a major attack.
The wounded soldier would normally make his way, or be carried, to the Regimental Aid Post. A number of stretcher bearers were detailed from his own bn. On this battlefield, they faced extreme difficulties because of the mud - what would normally be a 30min carry by a 4 man team was taking 6 hrs with a 6 man team.
From the RAP, the field ambulance companies would transport the wounded back to the appropriate Casualty Clearing Station. By this time, the CCSs were specializing somewhat, so one would deal with gassings, another with Gun Shot Wounds to the head, another with general GSWs, etc.
Your guy probably was wounded and sent to the 3rd Australian CCS at Nine Elms, abt 3km W of Poperinge, and abt 15 km W of Ypres.

There's a 9/1917 trench map at:
http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A66734/-/collection
The trenches shown are out of date by late Oct - as a security measure, only German trenches are shown.
This map is from Sheet 28 - we're interested in the top centre, specifically the square numbered D.17 - the sqs are 1000 yds x 1000 yds.
The 44th bn start line was near the level crossing 400 yds E of Tyne Cot Cemetery.
It ran to the NW from there. The attack ENE was toward vienna Cott (which was beyond the finish line). The finish line on the right was Decline Copse - a copse of shattered tree stumps abt 200 yds inside sq 18 on the railway, then NNW to Friesland on the 5-11 sq boundaries (Friesland itself was in the 58th bn's sector).





WW1 draft card
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZF2-X2K [with image link]

If this is your John:
Births Jun 1879 (>99%)
Woodward John Thomas Newport P. 3a 618
then it looks like he lied on his deaft registration.
I'll bet he didn't lie abt his b'day, just his y.o.b., and he was b 16/3/1879, so his age should have been 39, not 40 - and, on subsequent censuses, should be 40, 51, 61 - and also he wasn't a native born US citizen.

U.S., World War II Draft Registration Cards, 1942

Name:William Moses Fisher

Birth Date:21 Mar 1889

Birth Place:Granite Falls, North Carolina, USA

Residence:Norfolk, Virginia, USA

Race:White


Also on the draft: Myrtle Marie Fisher

You're welcome.

Thank you very much alviegal.

Lesley x

Name: Myrtle Marie Woodward Fisher
Gender: Female
Race: White
Spouse: Frank James Mills
Spouse Gender: Male
Spouse Race: White
Marriage Date: 1960
Marriage County: Pasquotank
Marriage State: North Carolina

Pretty please :-)

Lesley x

Can I ask another look-up please for this marriage on Ancestry.com

Myrtle Marie Woodward Fisher married Frank James Mills Pasquotank, North Carolina

Sorry I have no Idea what year, but would guess 1955/1965

Lesley x

Thank you Gins.

Lesley x

Here you go



Name:Myrtle Marie Mills

Gender:Female

Age at Death:0

Residence:Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Date of Birth:15 Feb 2005

Birth Place:Cleveland, Virginia, USA

Date of Death:15 Feb 2005

Source Location:Virginia Beach, Virginia, USA

Parents:
Thomas Woodward
[Marie Woodward]

Full Obituary:
Memorial for Myrtle Marie Mills Born in Cleveland, Ohio Departed on Feb. 15, 2005 and resided in Virginia Beach, VA. Myrtle Marie Mills, 89, of Virginia Beach, VA, passed away February 15, 2005, in her home. A native of Cleveland, OH, she was the daughter of the late Thomas and Marie Woodward. She leaves behind a host of children, grandchildren and great grandchildren. Family and friends are welcome to share in a celebration of her life on Saturday from 2 to 6 p.m. at 4108 Hermitage Point in Virginia Beach, VA. In lieu of flowers memorial donations may be made to the Virginia Beach S.P.C.A. Hollomon-Brown Funeral Home, Bayside Chapel is handling arrangements.


Looks like they have transcribed the wrong age at death

Thanks to everyone for the above help, this turn out to be the correct Woodward family.

Could I please ask for another Ancestry.com look-up.

U.S Cemetery and Funeral Home Collection Death, Burial, Cemetery & Obituaries.

Myrtle Marie Mills died 15 February 2005 Chesapeake Virginia.

Myrtle Marie Mills was the daughter of John Thomas Woodward.

Lesley x

Is this correct record?

Ohio, County Naturalization Records, 1800-1977
Name: John Thomas Woodward
Age: 36
Birth Date: 1879
Birth Place: England
Naturalization Date: 1915
Naturalization Place: Cleveland, Cuyahoga, Ohio, United States
FHL Film Number: 2371658

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-28260-845-15

On the 1910 census that John is a street labourer whereas the John on the 1920 is a farmer. Having said that, the 1920 states that the year of immigration for both him and Marie was 1912??

I agree ... that census seemed iffy, the names are not terribly uncommon, and the coincidence of Mary/Marie's German origin is not enough to go on

there just isn't any explanation for them being childless in NYC at that time when they did have a child and all other info shows them in Ohio

I wonder whether Mary was lying in at a hospital or maternity facility and John just didn't get enumerated

Thank you for the information about Percy and Herbert, that all corresponds with what we found.

I've looked again at the 1910 census for John J and Mary Woodward and this doesn't appear to be the correct family

If I am reading it right the census was taken 30-31 April and it shows John and Mary having no children

Yet it appears their first child John was born 25 April 1910

Lesley x

there is a link here to Herbert's page in the Canadian book of remembrance

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/137736?Herbert%20Alexander%20Woodward

the direct link is

http://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/books/page?page=353&book=1&sort=pageAsc

also his attestation ... this site is very annoying at least in my browser, you have to keep scrolling way down ... search for his name here

http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/military-heritage/first-world-war/first-world-war-1914-1918-cef/Pages/search.aspx

and then click to see the info and the original image
he named his mother as next of kin so not married

he enrolled in Saskatchewan in 1915 and reported that he was a farmer


no marriage for John Thomas but you have brought his brothers back to the family now if these weren't known ...

Canada, Soldiers of the First World War, 1914-1918

Name:Herbert Alex Woodward <<Farmer

Residence:Humboldt, Saskatchewan

Birth Date:22 Feb 1895

Birth Location:Bedford, Bedfordshire, England

Relative:Elizabeth Woodward

Relationship:Mother

Regiment Number:472873



Canada, CEF Commonwealth War Graves Registers, 1914-1919

Name:H A Woodward

Death Date:27 Oct 1917

Unit:46th Battalion

Rank:Private

Service number:472873

Burial Country:France, Belgium, etc.


http://twgpp.org/information.php?id=3143454

This looks Percy


UK, Outward Passenger Lists, 1890-1960


Name:Percy Woodward <<Joiner

Gender:Male

Age:22

Birth Date:abt 1892

Departure Date:3 Jul 1914

Port of Departure:London, England

Destination Port:Sydney, Australia

Ship Name:Orvieto


Shipping line:Orient Line

Official Number:129628

Master:P H Layton

That link woks for now JoonieCloonie but if someone clicks on it later today it will have timed out, I forget for how long the links are valid.

grr, even that didn't work

I started here

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/

searched for Percy Woodward in the upper right in Collections

and he is the third result in the results list

this link to the digital copy doesn't work? I'll try

http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/scripts/Imagine.asp?B=8860502