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Looking for parents & origin of Eliza. She turns up as "Visitor" at the house of John Alfred Packer in 1851 at 1 Samford Place Marylebone. Johns wife Charlotte seems to have left him a couple of years before. Eliza takes on the name of Packer tho' in 1881 she shows herself as unmarried. Her first Packer child was born 1850, the second one has a middle name of "Hunt" this must be from her side of the family as none on the Packer side

From a tree on Ancestry,

Family Members
Parents
William Tyler
1798 –

Mary Siggins
1800 –

marriage for the couple from the ancestry tree


England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about Mary Siggins
Name: Mary Siggins
Gender: Female
Marriage Date: 4 May 1818
Marriage Place: Saint Botolph Without Aldersgate,London,London,England
Spouse: William Tyler
FHL Film Number: 374443, 374444, 374445

?????????????

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Elizabeth Tyler
Name: Elizabeth Tyler
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 1 Aug 1830
Father's Name: William Tyler
Mother's name: Mary Tyler
Parish or Poor Law Union: Westminster St Martin in the Fields
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Bishop's Transcript

Name: William Tyler
Age: 35
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1806
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Olave Silver Street
Hundred: London Within the Walls
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: London
Sub-registration district: London North West
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 723
Book: 3
Folio: 5
Page Number: 4
Household Members:
Name Age
William Tyler 35
Maria Tyler 34
Elizabeth Tyler 9
Esher Tyler 8
Sarah Tyler 5
William Tyler 2

Astra, I think 1841 relates to this Elizabeth ????


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Elizabeth Maria Tyler
Name: Elizabeth Maria Tyler
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 17 Jun 1832
Father's Name: William Tyler
Mother's name: Maria Tyler
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Giles without Cripplegate
Borough: City of London
Register Type: Parish Registers

For ref.


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Samford Place, St Marylebone, Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John A Packer Head Married Male 33 1818 Lamplighter St Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alfred Packer Son - Male 0 1851 - St Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Eliza Tyler Visitor Unmarried Female 20 1831 Household Servt London, Middlesex, England


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
2, Little Carlisle Mews, St Marylebone, Marylebone, London, England
Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
John A Packer Head - Male 42 1819 Wheelwright Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Eliza Packer Wife - Female 30 1831 - Stepney, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Alfred J Packer Son Unmarried Male 10 1851 Scholar Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Georgiana Packer Daughter Unmarried Female 9 1852 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Robert W Packer Son Unmarried Male 7 1854 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Eliza Packer Daughter - Female 5 1856 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Mary Packer Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Margaret Packer Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Jessie Packer Daughter - Female 1 1860 - -
Transcription
George Packer Son - Male 0 1861 - Marylebone, Middlesex, England



1871 England Census about John Packer
Name: John Packer
Age: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Eliza Packer
Gender: Male
Where born: Marylebone
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Marylebone
Sub-registration district: St John
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Household schedule number: 383
Piece: 182
Folio: 83
Page Number: 54
Household Members:
Name Age
John Packer 52
Eliza Packer 39
Elizabeth Packer 16
Robert Packer 17
Mary Packer 14
Margaret Packer 13
Jessie Packer 11
George Packer 9
Jane Packer 6
Frederick Packo 5
Ellen Packo 4
Emma Packo 3
Charles Packo 1
Thomas Weatherstone 45

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Georgina Eliza Packer
Name: Georgina Eliza Packer
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 27 Jun 1852
Father's Name: John Alfred Packer
Mother's name: Eliza Packer
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone Christ Church
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers




London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Alfred Joseph Packer
Name: Alfred Joseph Packer
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 6 Oct 1850
Father's Name: John Alfred Packer
Mother's name: Eliza Packer
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers



London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906 about Mary Packer
Name: Mary Packer
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 2 Jun 1871
Father's Name: John Packer
Mother's name: Eliza Packer
Parish or Poor Law Union: Paddington St Augustine
Borough: Westminster
Register Type: Parish Registers

If Charlotte had left John, the he would be unable to marry .............. without committing bigamy



Marriages did break down then, just as often as now, but divorce was all but impossible fr the ordinary person .............. much too expensive, and really only 1 reason, adultery.


Because of this, common law relationships were almost more common today (or so I often think), and bigamy almost as common!

I'm just wondering about a little bit more information

John's wife Charlotte ... what record have you got of her ... their marriage? did they have children and did she take them?

just wondering because at 30 in 1851 with Eliza he could have had several children

there is a possible marriage in 1846 in Marylebone, to Charlotte Bishop ... ?

do you know where John was in the 1841 census?

which child was named Hunt? (not registered as such)


edit
YOO HOOOO -- PETER -- OVER HERE! :-)
(just wanted to get your attention when you return!)

>>> I think the info in this post and the next one is what you are looking for

__________________________________________________________________


ahaha, I have just found what I had been looking for ... Eliza Hunt as probably the grandchild or some other relation of a Mr Tyler ... because Ancestry hives households into bits in 1841, only the image shows the connection ... and the image is very poor

Name: Eliza Hunt
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: >>> Christchurch
Piece: 677
Book: 14
Folio: 24
Page Number: 40

Saml Tylor 61 abt 1780 (not born in county) St Marylebone, Middlesex
Maria Tylor 40 abt 1801 (not born in county) St Marylebone, Middlesex
Mary Tylor 3 abt 1838 Middlesex, England St Marylebone, Middlesex
Eliza Hunt 10 abt 1831 Middlesex, England St Marylebone, Middlesex

I believe it says Porter for Samuel's occupation

Christchurch was the subregistration district where Eliza lived with John Packer and their family


possibly these

Births Sep 1837
TYLER Mary Marylebone 1 94

Deaths Sep 1846
Tyler Samuel Marylebone 1 139

Deaths Mar 1843
TYLER Maria Marylebone 1 172


could Maria have been a Hunt with daughter Eliza, who married Mr Tyler?

... and Mr Tyler was Eliza's stepfather whose surname she adopted


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N2XW-J2B

Name: Samuel Tyler
Spouse's Name: Maria Hunt
Event Date: 07 Jul 1835
Event Place: Spitalfields Christ Church, >>> Stepney, London, England
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M06969-1


Eliza Tyler Packer was born in Stepney ...

hm !

can anyone read this John Packer's occupation in 1841 ??

edit - yes, the checkmark was leading me astray
it's Wheelwright, and that was our John Packer's occupation in 1861

Name: John Packer
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1821
Gender: Male
Where born: Middlesex, England
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England
Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: >>> Christchurch
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 677
Book: 12
Folio: 7
Page Number: 10
John Packer 20
Frederick Packer 15

and in the next household

Joseph Packer 47 labourer not born in county
Elizabeth 40
Jemima 20
Hester 12
Henry 2
Eliza 1
Henry 17 Weaver

so that is our John Packer then?


from the location of
Boston Place, Marylebone (John Packer)
and
Park Street, Marylebone (Eliza Hunt and the Tylers)
(street names in that district, Park this and Park that, are now different, but also in enumeration district 12 Christchurch is Allsops Mews, for example, and I see Allsop Place on a modern map)

... this John Packer and this Eliza Hunt lived within about 4-6 blocks of each other in 1841 right below Regents Park


https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NPQX-LJL

Name: John Alfred Packer
Gender: Male
Christening Date: 31 May 1818
Christening Place: SAINT MARY-ST MARYLEBONE ROAD, ST MARYLEBONE, LONDON, ENGLAND
Birth Date: 14 Apr 1818
Father's Name: Joseph Packer
Mother's Name: Elizabeth
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C03524-6

Joonie


Nope ...... John Packer did not marry Charlotte Bishop



London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921 about Charlotte Bishop

Name: Charlotte Bishop
Spouse: William Woby
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 28 Jun 1846
Parish: St Marylebone
Borough: Westminster
Father Name: Saml Bishop
Spouse Father: Wm Woby
Register Type: Parish Register

I just wanted to know more about Charlotte to try to place John Packer in 1841 ... to see whether there was an Eliza in the vicinity ...


and I've done that now I think ! :-D


but it would still be interesting to see where she went and whether she and John had children, unless Peter knows

Possible ?????????????????????????



Marriages Jun 1842 (>99%)
EVANS Mary Ann Kensington 3 223
HEATH Charlotte Kensington 3 223
KEDGE Elizabeth Kensington 3 223
MAY Mary Kensington 3 223
MURRAY Eliza Kensington 3 223 <<<<<<<<
MURRY Eliza Kensington 3 223 <<<<<<<
PACKER John Alfred Kensington 3 223 <<<<<<<<
PENWARN William Kensington 3 223
PIDDOCK William Kensington 3 223
POTTS Thomas Kensington 3 223

Joonie ...............


let's leave it as proof that John Packer did not marry a Charlotte Bishop

but we do need to prove if the Eliza Murray in the record I posted did indeed marry John Alfred

no no no!!!


John Alfred married a Charlotte Heath, who was one of the other names on that marriage registration




England, Select Marriages, 1538–1973 about John Alfred Packer

Name: John Alfred Packer
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 1 May 1842
Marriage Place: Saint James,Paddington,London,England
Father: Joseph Packer
Spouse: Charlotte Heath
FHL Film Number: 579637

there we are, Charlotte Heath, yes that was the other possibility :-)

anyway like I said I was just trying to place John Packer in 1841

and maybe see when Charlotte died or what became of her ... people sometimes married late after the death of a first spouse

I've found his marriage to a Charlotte ............................


Charlotte Heath in 1842




Charlotte Heath's father is .................... Henry Heath



Unfortunately, no image to get further information










YES ....................... I think you may well be correct with the Hunt - Tyler - Packer

possible for Charlotte in 1841??


1841 Census

Name: Charlotte Heath
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1819
Gender: Female
Civil Parish: St Marylebone
Hundred: Ossulstone (Holborn Division)
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: Christchurch

Piece: 677
Book: 11
Folio: 34
Page Number: 62

Henry Heath 49 b.ca 1792, not born in county, Carpenter
Elizabeth Heath 46 b.ca 1795, not born in County
Charlotte Heath 22 not born in County, Female Servant
Elizabeth Heath 10 b. Middlesex
Richard Heath 17 not born in County, Nail Room Boy
Jhn Heath 15 b. Middlesex, Plasterer's Boy
Robert Heath 8 b. Middlesex
William Heath 3 b. Middlesex

Address:- Lyme Street