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Guy Holden died on 5 Jun 1966 at Birch Hill Hospital.
He lived at 305 Market St, WHITWORTH

Probate to Barclays Bank (£7798)

NAME: Guy Holden
BIRTH DATE: abt 1880
DATE OF REGISTRATION: Jun 1966
AGE AT DEATH: 86
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Littleborough
INFERRED COUNTY: Lancashire

Thanks,too, safe. The Lancashire Cotton Mills! I was at the Manchester Museum for Science and Industry, not long ago, learning a little about weaving; next time I'll be far more interested.
Glasgow Lass, I think you've found my "Uncle Guy", my memory of whom I only shared with my wife last week. It was in a church garden in the very early '60's: It was a warm day and feeling bored I had started to half-heartedly run around the rose beds when my attention was caught by the oldest man I had ever seen: his deeply sun burned, shiny skin was stretched tightly over his high cheek-boned skull and his immaculate dress and quietly dignified bearing made him, to me stand out from the crowd. Despite his advanced years he still managed to look handsome, like an American civil War General in his long, pale grey coat and Panama hat. I must have been staring for he leaned forward with both hands resting on the carved ivory head of his walking cane and gazed,steadily back at me with his pale eyes twinkling." I am your Uncle Guy." He said and he asked how old I thought he was. I seem to remember that he was 84 ...and that was it; no one knew who I was talking about and years later my mum thought that I had imagined the meeting.

That's her safc.
The same address listed in the 1862 marriage

Parents of Thomas Holden were Henry Holden and Martha Jackson who married in Rochdale 1836

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bridge Mill, Spring Cottages, Spotland, Rochdale, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Robert Broxup Head Married Male 47 1814 Cottton Warper Lancashire, England
Transcription
Alice Broxup Wife Married Female 40 1821 - Lancashire, England
Transcription
Ann Broxup Daughter - Female 11 1850 Cotton Weaver Lancashire, England
Transcription
Mary Jane Broxup Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Lancashire, England
Transcription
Isabella Cummingham Boarder Unmarried Female 21 1840 Cotton Drawing Frame Tenter Scotland

Hi Steve,
A PM means Private Message.

I will send the two marriage certs to you by Private Message
Edit:
Certs sent

Dear Glasgow lass,
the storms didn't make it this far south of the border; I heard, on the radio, how bad they were; it isn't often that I have reason to appreciate that kind of weather. You've already worked above and beyond..I cannot ask for more. What does PM mean? I am such a newby. I'm going over...

I was going to say that I was going over the information on my mobile with a dangerously low battery and a hash brown in Swinton McDonald's when my device powered down :-(
With the info you have provided, I should be able to do some stuff myself I think. I still can't believe I know this stuff suddenly. The last time I saw my Uncle Ian was at that graveside, one father's day, some 15 years ago - and that was the first since Jean Platt's death...of course the grave is his father's too - but we were so surprised I didn't think to take the chance to ask questions (not that he would know any what you discovered). By the time I had plucked up the courage to call at the Warrington address he gave me a new family were just moving in with only the vaguest idea that he had moved to " Weymouth or somewhere".

Hi Steve,
I'm not usually such a night owl but, the storm last night kept me awake until the wee small hours.

Do you wish me to PM both of the Lancashire marriage certs?

I can't find any Scottish birth for Isabella Burns Cunningham with parents: Gavin and Jane/Jean

Found the birth of Robert Dickson McGilchrist on Family Search
Born 1 Feb 1866 Alloa, Clackmannanshire
Parents: John McGilchrist and Isabella Stevenson

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYBF-K8Q

Sibling births also on FS
Based on siblings names, this looks like his mother's birth:

Isabella Stevenson baptised 11 Oct 1827, St Ninians, Stirling
Parents: James Stevenson and Isabella Square

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XY7V-2JV

Dear Glasgow Lass,
I just got up and found your reply. I can't believe the amount of information that you uncovered in the wee small hours; I am so grateful, thank you so much. It hasn't escaped my notice that an ancestors middle name was Burns!! I may be returning to that monument in Stirlingshire yet!

Thank you again; ,I cannot wait to tell two of my sister's.

Steve

According to the 1890 Macgilchrist/Holden marriage, Martha's father was a
Shopkeeper:

E: Thomas Holden
BIRTH YEAR: abt 1839
AGE: 22
MARRIAGE DATE: 9 Sep 1861
PARISH: Whitworth, St Bartholomew
PARISH AS IT APPEARS: Whitworth
FATHER'S NAME: Henry Holden
SPOUSE'S NAME: Isabella Cunningham
SPOUSE'S FATHER'S NAME: Gavin Cunningham

( marrigae cert available on Ancestry)


1881
ME: Thomas Holden
AGE: 41
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1840
RELATIONSHIP TO HEAD: Head
SPOUSE: Isabella Holden
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Whitworth, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Spotland
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England
STREET ADDRESS: 4 Cleggs Buildgs
MARITAL STATUS: Married
OCCUPATION: Grocer******
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Rochdale
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Whitworth
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 15
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 4124
FOLIO: 58
PAGE NUMBER: 6
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Thomas Holden 41
Isabella Holden 41
Jane Holden 18
Martha Holden 14 *****
Annie Holden 11
Mary Holden 8
Henry Holden 6
Christiana Holden 3
Guy Holden 1
Jane Cunningham 76 Mother in Law B Scotland

1891:
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NAME: Thomas Holden
AGE: 51
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1840
RELATION: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME: Isabella Burns Holden
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Whitworth, Lancashire, England
CIVIL PARISH: Spotland
ECCLESIASTICAL PARISH: St Bartholomew
TOWN: Whitworth
COUNTY/ISLAND: Lancashire
COUNTRY: England

REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Rochdale
SUB REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Whitworth
ED, INSTITUTION, OR VESSEL: 15
NEIGHBORS: View others on page
PIECE: 3344
FOLIO: 17
PAGE NUMBER: 3
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Thomas Holden 51
Isabella Burns Holden 50 Born GLASGOW
Jane Holden 28
Mary Holden 18
Henry Holden 16
Christiann Holden 13
Guy Holden 11

1890 marriage shows that Robert's father was a Maltster.


1870
NAME: John Mc Gelchrist
AGE: 43
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1828
RELATIONSHIP: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME : Isabella Mc Gelchrist
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Fairley, Stirl
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 465
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Alloa
CIVIL PARISH: Alloa
COUNTY: Clackmannanshire
ADDRESS: Rd To Cambus Pow
OCCUPATION: Mallman
ED: 8
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 33
LINE: 5
ROLL: CSSCT1871_80
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
John Mc Gelchrist 43
Isabella Mc Gelchrist 41
James Mc Gelchrist 16
John Mc Gelchrist 14
Alex Mc Gelchrist 11
Jean Mc Gelchrist 7
Robert Mc Gelchrist 5 ****
Susan Mc Gelchrist 2
Christina Mc Gelchrist 7 Mo
Chas Robertson

1881NAME: John McGilchrist
AGE: 53
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1828
RELATIONSHIP: Head
SPOUSE'S NAME : Isabella McGilchrist
GENDER: Male
WHERE BORN: Fintry, Stirlingsh.
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 465
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Alloa
CIVIL PARISH: Alloa
COUNTY: Clackmannanshire
ADDRESS: Cambus
OCCUPATION: Maltman
ED: 9
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 42
LINE: 15
ROLL: cssct1881_129
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
John McGilchrist 53
Isabella McGilchrist 51
Alexander McGilchrist 21
Robert McGilchrist 15 ***
Susan McGilchrist 12
Christina McGilchrist 10


Definitely the family of John McGilchrist and Isabella Stevenson

John Mcgilchrist
GENDER: Male
MARRIAGE DATE: 14 Dec 1851
MARRIAGE PLACE: Saint Ninians,Stirling,Scotland
SPOUSE: Isabella Stevenson
FHL FILM NUMBER: 1041957, 0102128

1891
NAME: Martha McGilchrist
AGE: 24
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1867
RELATIONSHIP: Wife
SPOUSE'S NAME : Robert D McGilchrist
GENDER: Female
WHERE BORN: England
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 644/9
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Kelvin
CIVIL PARISH: Glasgow St George
COUNTY: Lanarkshire
ADDRESS: 10 Rose Hall St
ED: 117
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 129
LINE: 23
ROLL: CSSCT1891_280
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Robert D McGilchrist 25
Martha McGilchrist 24

1901
NAME: Martha Mcgilchrist
AGE: 34
ESTIMATED BIRTH YEAR: abt 1867
RELATIONSHIP: Wife
SPOUSE'S NAME : Robt Mcgilchrist
GENDER: Female
WHERE BORN: Whitworth, Lanarkshire.. Should read Lancashire!
REGISTRATION NUMBER: 644/2
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Camlachie
CIVIL PARISH: Glasgow Camlachie
COUNTY: Lanarkshire
ADDRESS: 97 Burgher St
ED: 27
HOUSEHOLD SCHEDULE NUMBER: 28
LINE: 20
ROLL: CSSCT1901_269
HOUSEHOLD MEMBERS:
NAME AGE
Robt Mcgilchrist 35
Martha Mcgilchrist 34
Isabella Mcgilchrist 9
John Mcgilchrist 7
Jane Mcgilchrist 1



Isabella's birth will be found on Scotlands People.
Registered in Lanarkshire in 1891.

The birth cert will tell you her mother's maiden name and where her parents married but I guess it this one?

NAME: Robert McGilchrist
BIRTH YEAR: abt 1866
AGE: 24
MARRIAGE DATE: 3 Jun 1890
PARISH: Whitworth, St Bartholomew
PARISH AS IT APPEARS: Whitworth
FATHER'S NAME: John McGilchrist
SPOUSE'S NAME: Martha Holden ****
SPOUSE'S FATHER'S NAME: Thomas Holden

The cert is on Ancestry and Robert lived in Glasgow at the time of marriage

Do you have access to it or do you wish me to PM it?

According to both Ancestry and Family search, Martha died in 1944 as MacGilchrist not Dickson.
There is a probate for her too stating that she was Martha MacGilchrist, widow ,Milverton Farm who died 2 Feb 1944.
Administration to Isabella Brobbin, married woman (£1182. 7s.3d)
NB Dickson name is not mentioned on the probate

If Isabella Brobbin was her daughter, it looks like Martha and Robert Dickson never actually married

Isabella Macgilchrist
SPOUSE SURNAME: Brobbin
DATE OF REGISTRATION: Jul-Aug-Sep 1937
REGISTRATION DISTRICT: Barton
INFERRED COUNTY: Greater Manchester, Lancashire
VOLUME NUMBER: 8c
PAGE NUMBER: 1929

EDIT....STOP! REWIND!
Robert Dickson was Martha's husband's first names!
His name was ROBERT DICKSON MACGILCHRIST

NAME: Robert Dickson McGilchrist
PROBATE DATE: 26 Jul 1933
DEATH DATE: 2 Jun 1933
DEATH PLACE: Surrey, England
REGISTRY: Liverpool, England

His probate confirms that his widow was Martha ((£1832. 13s 2d)

*Jean Platt died at the age of 81, not 84.

Hi all,
the urge to dive into my gene pool has been growing for some time, but what I thought was a sure fire lead on a family grave stone turned out to be a puzzle on a stumbling block.

I was born Stephen Platt in '57 and spent the first four years of my life at Milverton Farm in Rixton, Warrington where my father, Robert Peter Platt, ran the farm owned by his dad, James. In 1961 things changed when Robert was killed in a shooting accident at the young age of 31. Bob's brother, Ian, was too young to carry on the farm and as their dad, James, had passed nearly two years earlier, my Nanna Platt auctioned off Milverton giving my mum, who was carrying my second sister, the proceeds from the sale of the "Bristol" with which to build a new life. Eventually she got me a great new dad, and 10 years later I became Stephen Lovell.

The puzzle, on what I have always , since her death in '81, regarded as Nanna Platt's grave is that her mum and dad have different surnames. The stone is a memorial to her husband: James Platt died 10/05/1959 aged 63
herself: Jean Platt. died 06/05/1981 aged 84
their daughter: Eunice Martha died 07/10/1948 aged 23
her mother: Martha MacGilchrist died 02/02/1944 aged 77
her father: Robert Dickson. died 02/06/1933 aged 67

My Nanna had a Scottish accent; as did her sister whom I called Aunty Belle. Although I am eager to learn my Platt line ( and I did get back to a great great great grandma: Margaret [nee Ellison] Platt born in 1783!) I am curious to explore Nanna' s ancestors; partly because I knew her so long but not least because she hinted at the family shame of being descended from one of Robbie Burns' "love children" ( Personally, if that could be proven I'd shout it from the top of the Wallace Monument : D ) It was rumoured that my granddad James Platt met Jean when he was on business in Ayr: Jean was the daughter of the guest house owner.

Anyway I thought that the birth of Martha MacGilchrist would be easy to find in Scotland and as (I imagine)Dicksons are too numerous, I would find Robert Dickson through her: I am intrigued by a 1911 census record that places a Martha Mcgilchrist in what might be 127 Stirling Road, Clackmannan, Alloa as the 44 year old wife of Robert D Mcgilchrist 45, a machinist in the wood carving industry. Also there were: Isabella 19, John 17, an architect in the house building industry and Jeanie 11, a scholar. The ages are about right but the MacGilchrist is a Mcgilchrist with no sign of a Dickson. I remember Nanna Platt telling me that a photograph I asked about was of her brother..but I seem to remember the name being Peter; he looked like an old sea captain; she said he was an artist in America...but he may have been her brother-In-law!?

I know I am on dodgy ground but have come across inconsistencies along the Platt line: An 1851census placed my great great granddad Abel Platt in Martinscroft cum Woolston and married to whom I took to be MaryAnne, but wasn't sure because of the handwriting. However, in1861, she was definitely Margaret. I wanted to know my Great great grandmother's surname so looked for their marriage: two marriage records for an Abel Platt ..and neither to a Margaret; she has to be Mary Anne Hankinson - there was a Henry Hankinson next door. I hope that is the case as an Albert Hankinson was my dad Bob's best friend and I, as a very small boy, was very fond of him.

Do I forget Clackmannan, though? The people in the records have already entered my dreams.