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Welcome to the Genes Reunited community boards!

The Genes Reunited community is made up of millions of people with similar interests. Discover your family history and make life long friends along the way.
You will find a close knit but welcoming group of keen genealogists all prepared to offer advice and help to new members.
And it's not all serious business. The boards are often a place to relax and be entertained by all kinds of subjects.
The Genes community will go out of their way to help you, so don’t be shy about asking for help.

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Profile	Posted by	Options	Post Date
Member Since: November 2003 Posts: 708 Send Message	Moira	Report	14 Dec 2015 15:10
	Lily was my husbands grandmother, other than the fact that she told everyone she was born in Barnsley and that she is in the 1911 census and on that she has said she was born Barnsley, but she could have been told she was born in Barnsley from an early age and believed it. So I am at a loss now, by the way she was not with Husband in 1911 she had left him by then and took up with another man. Thank you for your help everyone
	Researching: Morris Radnor, Kerr Yorkshire and Notts. Sorsby Yorkshire, Mapplebeck Yorkshire
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	14 Dec 2015 03:49
	Moira Richard may be named as the father of the bride, but that does not necessarily mean that he even existed! Many illegitimate children "named" a father on their marriage certificate because it "looked better" to the other family than a blank. Some named a family member, eg grandfather, uncle Some named a family friend Some gave a name that was the same or very similar to someone well-known in the village or town. We've all been on wild goose chases trying to find these "false" names. I don't think that Jonathan and Ann are the parents of your Lil(l)y, but the fact remains that no-one has succeeded in finding a Richard William with daughter Lil(l)y. That is why I posted a few hours ago that I was beginning to wonder if we were on a red herring chase. In fact ............... what documentary evidence do you have that your Lil(l)y was in fact born in Barnsley?? She could have been born anywhere!
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: November 2003 Posts: 708 Send Message	Moira	Report	14 Dec 2015 02:39
	I don't think that Jonathan and Ann are the parents of my Lily, Richard is named as father of the bride.
	Researching: Morris Radnor, Kerr Yorkshire and Notts. Sorsby Yorkshire, Mapplebeck Yorkshire
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	13 Dec 2015 21:25
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	Grey ghost, I think Thomas Swift may have married Charlotte Loveday which leaves Mary Elizabeth Vickers to marry Richard William Smith. Can't find them though. 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Parkins Yard, Nether Hoyland, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Thomas Swift Head Married Male 26 1865 Coal Miner Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Transcription Charlotte Swift Wife Married Female 25 1866 - Norfolk, England Transcription Gertrude Swift Daughter Single Female 4 1887 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Transcription George Henry Swift Son Single Male 3 1888 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Transcription Frank Swift Son Single Male 0 1891 - Elsecar, Yorkshire, England Transcription Aaron Moody Lodger Single Male 40 1851 Labourer Milton, Yorkshire, England
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:56
	Alviegal If Joseph Holding was Clerk and Sexton at the church, and Ann was his wife .......... then that means they were acting in lieu of friends attending, and could possibly have been "professional" witnesses, being paid a small amount for doing so.
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:46
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	Sylvia, I was thinking the same thing. If Shirley's Lily is correct, then surely her mother would be a Miss Riley. Not finding a marriage for corresponding people though.
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:43
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	This appears to be the witnesses to the marriage. Doesn't seem to be much help though. 1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription 50, Church Street, Thurnscoe, Doncaster, Yorkshire, England Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Joseph Holding Head Married Male 58 1843 Clerk & Sexton Yorkshire, England Transcription Ann Holding Wife Married Female 54 1847 - Yorkshire, England Transcription Frank Holding Son Single Male 25 1876 Post Office Clerk Blacker Hill, Yorkshire, England Transcription Emma Brittain Sister-In-Law Married Female 51 1850 - Yorkshire, England
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:31
	Alviegal I'm just wondering if Richard William is a red herring??? The only other Lil(l)y Smith born in Barnsely on the 1891 Census is the one that Shirley posted yesterday, living with her grandparents
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:27
	This seems to be the family from 1901 in 1891 .... so is this your Lil(l)y or not?? 1891 Census Name: Albert Smith Age: 15 Estimated birth year: abt 1876 Relation: Son Father's name: Jonathan Smith Mother's name: Ann Smith Gender: Male Where born: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Barnsley Ecclesiastical parish: St John Town: Barnsley County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Barnsley ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Piece: 3774 Folio: 113 Page Number: 7 Jonathan Smith 46 b.ca 1845, High Hoyland, Yorkshire, Coal Miner Ann Smith 39 b.ca 1852, Worsborough, Yorkshire, Hammerer in Coal Pit Henry Smith 21 b.ca 1870, Barnsley, Leader in Coal Pit Jonathan Smith 18 Coal Leader Albert Smith 15 b.ca 1876, Barnsley, Pony Driver in Coal Pit Beatrice Smith 11 Scholar Ernest Smith 9 Scholar James Smith 6 Scholar Lilly Smith 3 b.ca 1888, Barnsley Address:- 30 Joseph St
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	alviegal	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:24
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 12,339 Send Message	This is that family Sylvia so probably not as father is Jonathan. 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Joseph Street, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Learn more Print transcription View image Household Members First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Jonathan Smith Head Married Male 46 1845 Coal Miner High Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Transcription Ann Smith Wife Married Female 39 1852 - Yorkshire, England Transcription Henry Smith Son Single Male 21 1870 Trammer In Coal Pit Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription Jonathan Smith Son Single Male 18 1873 Coal Leader Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription Albert Smith Son Single Male 15 1876 Pony Driver In Coal Pit Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription Beatrice Smith Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription Ernest Smith Son - Male 9 1882 Scholar Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription James Smith Son - Male 6 1885 Scholar Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Transcription Lilly Smith Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Barnsley, Yorkshire, England
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	13 Dec 2015 20:18
	Is this Lilly with her mother in 1901??? 1901 Census Name: Lilly Smith Age: 13 Estimated birth year: abt 1888 Relation to Head: Daughter Gender: Female Mother: Ann Smith Birth Place: Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Civil Parish: Barnsley Search Photos: Search for 'Barnsley' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection Ecclesiastical parish: St John Town: Barnsley County/Island: Yorkshire Country: England Registration district: Barnsley Sub-registration district: Barnsley ED, institution, or vessel: 32 Piece: 4315 Folio: 205 Page Number: 33 Household schedule number: 216 Ann Smith 49 b.ca 1852, Barnsley, Widow Henry Smith 31 b.ca 1870, Barnsley, Gas Works Labourer Albert Smith 25b.ca 1876, Barnsley, Farming Labourer Lilly Smith 13 Painter (???) at Bobbin Mille Charles W Smith 9 b.ca 1892, Barnsley Address:- 30 Joseph St
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: April 2004 Posts: 46,062 Send Message	SylviaInCanada	Report	13 Dec 2015 19:43
	from FMP Yorkshire Marriages Transcription First name(s) Thomas Albert Last name Baker Age 21 Birth year 1884 Marriage year 1905 Marriage date 08 May 1905 Marriage place Thurnscoe Residence Thurnscoe Father's first name(s) William Father's last name Baker Spouse's first name(s) Lily Spouse's last name Smith Spouse's age 17 Spouse's residence Thurnscoe Spouse's father's first name(s) Richard William Spouse's father's last name Smith County Yorkshire (West Riding) Country England Archive Doncaster Archives Page 99 Record set Yorkshire Marriages Category Life Events (BDMs) Subcategory Marriages & divorces Collections from United Kingdom from image:- Address for both Thomas and Lily given as Thurnscoe Richard's occupation:- Miner Thomas and his father are also Miners Witnesses:- Joseph Holding and Ann Holding
	Researching: My brother, photo taken in September 1991 just a couple of weeks before he died. ............................................................ To help us and to get better results, please post as much detail as you can, especially name, date(s) and place. Also say what you already know.
Member Since: November 2003 Posts: 708 Send Message	Moira	Report	13 Dec 2015 19:18
	Thank you I will, we are off to family for Christmas so hope it arrives before then
	Researching: Morris Radnor, Kerr Yorkshire and Notts. Sorsby Yorkshire, Mapplebeck Yorkshire
Member Since: March 2006 Posts: 91,776 Send Message	LondonBelle	Report	13 Dec 2015 13:28
	Moira, come back on this Thread when you have received the Marriage Certificate and let us know what it says then we might be able to help you some more.
	Researching: Give a dog a bone!
Member Since: November 2003 Posts: 708 Send Message	Moira	Report	13 Dec 2015 12:19
	I have only the info from Ancestry marriages and from the office that I have sent for the cert. of Lilly and Thomas that Richard is named. I never thought to ask his occupation. I await the marriage cert. arriving.
	Researching: Morris Radnor, Kerr Yorkshire and Notts. Sorsby Yorkshire, Mapplebeck Yorkshire
Member Since: March 2006 Posts: 91,776 Send Message	LondonBelle	Report	13 Dec 2015 08:33
	Moira, What occupation is given for Richard? who were the Witnesses to the Marriage? What age and address were given for Lilly? Lastly, have you found Richard in any other census? Thanks
	Researching: Give a dog a bone!
Member Since: November 2003 Posts: 708 Send Message	Moira	Report	13 Dec 2015 08:28
	thank you so much everyone,I am so sorry I could not get back in site yesterday, we had a water leak, so i was quiet busy, all mended now. Thank you again for all you hard work. Richard is named on the marriage cert,
	Researching: Morris Radnor, Kerr Yorkshire and Notts. Sorsby Yorkshire, Mapplebeck Yorkshire
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 10,667 Send Message	greyghost	Report	12 Dec 2015 23:08
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 10,667 Send Message	?? 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Nether Field, Nether Hoyland, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Esau Loveday Head Married Male 60 1821 Labourer Hainford, Norfolk, England Martha Loveday Wife Married Female 52 1829 - Hainford, Norfolk, England Charlotte Loveday Daughter Single Female 15 1866 - Fritton, Norfolk, England Thos Green Boarder Single Male 28 1853 Stone Miner (Quarrier) Wadworth, Yorkshire, England Geo White Boarder Single Male 60 1821 Stone Miner (Quarrier) Gloucester, Gloucestershire, England
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 10,667 Send Message	greyghost	Report	12 Dec 2015 22:48
Member Since: July 2005 Posts: 10,667 Send Message	Possible that Thomas Swift married Mary Elizabeth Vickers - Jump and Hoyland are next to each other districts of Barnsley. So the Richard William Smith listed married Charlotte Loveday 1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Princess Street, Nether Hoyland, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place Thomas Swift Head Married Male 28 1863 Insurance Agent Jump, Yorkshire, England Mary Swift Wife Married Female 23 1868 - Jump, Yorkshire, England --------------------------- 1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription Hoyland, Nether Hoyland, Barnsley, Yorkshire, England First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place William Bailey Head Married Male 55 1826 Beerhouse Keeper Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Mary Ann Bailey Wife Married Female 53 1828 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England George Bailey Son Single Male 20 1861 C Miner Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Savilla Bailey Daughter Single Female 17 1864 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Walter Bailey Son Single Male 13 1868 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Wm Francis Bailey Son Single Male 12 1869 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Mary Elizth Vickers Grand Daughter Single Female 12 1869 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England James Vickers Grand Son Single Male 4 1877 - Hoyland, Yorkshire, England Wm Bowling Lodger Widower Male 49 1832 Laborer Buckden, Huntingdonshire, England
Member Since: October 2004 Posts: 8,837 Send Message	malyon	Report	12 Dec 2015 20:39
	Richard William Smith England and Wales Marriage Registration Index Name Richard William Smith Event Type Marriage Registration Quarter Jul-Aug-Sep Registration Year 1885 Registration District Barnsley County Yorkshire Event Place Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Volume 9C Page 208 Line Number 146 Richard William Smith probably married one of the following people Name Charlotte Loveday Name Thomas Swift Name Mary Elizabeth Vickers

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