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They lived in Clodeshall Road, Saltley, Birmingham at the 1911 census.

the ones I suspected :-)

so in the 1911 census, married 31 years

hm, the only potential marriage that fits the dates (although not quite, as it was to be 31 full years in 1911) but not the place

Marriages Sep 1880
FOY Ann Warrington 8c 184
? Llewellyn John Warrington 8c 184
MILLER David Warrington 8c 184
? Roberts Ellen Warrington 8c 184

since your John was born in Bilston and Ellen in West Bromich, that seems unlikely

I would suggest getting your grandmother's birth certificate to be sure of her mother's name

I think this is the 1880 couple, in 1881

Name: Ellen Llewellyn
[Ellen Llewellen] (added by an Ancestry user)
Age: 22
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship to Head: Wife
Spouse: John Llewellyn
Where born: Warrington, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Warrington

Name: John Llewellyn
[John Llewellen]
Age: 23
Estimated birth year: abt 1858
Relationship to Head: Head
Spouse: Ellen Llewellyn
Where born: Wordsley, Staffordshire, England
Civil Parish: Warrington
County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: Warrington
Street address: 31 Pierpoint St
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Stock Taker (Iron)

so it looks like that marriage isn't your gr-grparents

both that couple and your John & Ellen are present in the 1891 census

aha here are yours in 1881 in West Bromwich

John Llewelleyn 25
Helen Llewelleyn 20
Maria Llewelleyn 4
Mary A. Llewelleyn 1

but I don't see a marriage to Helen either

or a marriage earlier than 1880 (4 year old child in 1881) to a Helen or Ellen in the right vicinity

so I'd get the birth certificate

unless anybody else is cleverer than me :-)

There is this

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marriages Mar 1877 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>>>>LLEWELLYN John Dudley 6c 105
STEPHENS Mary Jemima Dudley 6c 105
Taylor John Dudley 6c 105
>>>>>>WEBSTER Eleanor Dudley 6c 105


Not quite correct area, but close.

Andy

This is addictive isn't it? Their children were John, Sarah Ann, Eliza Jane (my grandmother) and William.

that one sounds reasonable Andrew, I'd skipped over it

of course I was wondering whether, given Ellen's age when their first child was born, maybe they just did without the benefit of clergy :-)

but you need Eliza Jane's birth cert to be sure

Name: Eliza Jane Llewellyn
Age in 1911: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1895
Relation to Head: Daughter
Gender: Female
Birth Place: West Bromwich, Staffordshire, England

Births Mar 1895
Llewellyn Eliza Jane W. Bromwich 6b 904

a possible for Ellen but this is all speculation ... just because it's addictive

Births Dec 1860
WEBSTER Ellen W Bromwich 6b 588

the interchangeable names for 'Ellen' always remind me of Agatha Christie

and how one of her characters was put out by a servant called Helen, who was obviously putting on airs because servants were called Ellen :-)

That is definitely my grandmother. She was born in West Bromwich on December 14th 1894. Just looked for and found my grandmother's birth certificate amongst my mother's effects. Her mother was Ellen Llewellyn nee Webster. Well done!

wot a team :-)

now you need Ellen's birth cert for her date of birth


John in 1911

Name: John Llewellyn
Age in 1911: 54
Estimated birth year: abt 1857
Relation to Head: Head
Birth Place: Bilston, Staffordshire, England

Bilston was in Wolverhampton reg dist at the time

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/wolverhampton.html

no John Llewellyn birth there 1850-1860

back to needing their marriage certificate to check his age and father's name and try to find him in a census before marriage

unless Andrew comes along with the answer :-)

So the only way to get their dates of birth is to order copies? I don't mind doing that. It would be lovely to have them to keep. However, we have plans to order the headstone on Friday this week!

??


Births Mar 1856 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Llewellen John Wolverhampton 6b 473


Andy

show off :-)


yes, the birth certs are the only way

it wasn't until after 1969 that the deaths index began to show dates of birth (and even then, some older people's are not correct, given inaccurate family knowledge or memory)

it doesn't take long to get certificates, maybe you could place the order with that info to be supplied in a few days?

Thank you both. What an excellent evening's work. I've researched the paternal side of my family back to the 1700s because of a relatively unusual surname but I've been putting off researching the Llewelyns for obvious reasons. This has given me the push I needed.

:-)

Andy

You're welcome, enjoy!

Asking for help again. I ordered the three birth certificates I needed online from the GRO but I've had a reply today saying they can't trace John Llewellyn with the details I provided. I quoted volume 6b, page 473.
John LLewellyn was born in Bilston, Staffordshire in 1856 or 1857. He married Ellen Webster and their children were John, Eliza Jane, Sarah Ann and William. Bilston may have been
I have spent several hours today trying to discover where I went wrong. Can anyone help?

did you spell the name LLEWELLEN ?

that was the entry cleverly found by Andy

Like Joonie said his birth is recorded like this.

Name: John Llewellen******************************
Registration Year: 1856
Registration Quarter: Jan-Feb-Mar
Registration district: Wolverhampton
Parishes for this Registration District: View Ecclesiastical Parishes associated with this Registration District
Inferred County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 473

No, I spelt it the correct way. I can't stop being a teacher even though I'm retired!
I'll try ordering it again. Thank you.