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My thanks to everyone for your help, I think we can close this subject now.
Regards Ann :-)

I suspect this is Margaret and her sisters' births:-

All under same Reference numbers

GRO Regimental Birth Indices Volume 954 Page 3

BRIDGET TULLEY, GIBRALTAR, 1826, Regiment 12th Foot

JANE TULLEY, GIBRALTER, 1829, Regiment 12th Foot

JANE TULLEY, GIBRALTAR, 1831, Regiment 12th Foot

MARGARET TULLEY, WINCHESTER, 1834, Regiment 12th Foot

ELLEN TULLEY, ATHLONE, 1837, Regiment 12th Foot
----------------------------------------

I believe that some of the births may be entered twice under surname Fully:-

Volume 955 page17
MARY FULLY FULLAMORE 1822 Regiment 12th
BRIDGET FULLY GIBRATAR 1826 Regiment 12th
JANE FULLY GIBRALTAR 1831 Regiment 12th

Yes, the nephew William with uncle Hugh in 1871 may be the son of one of his other brothers and not John's son.

On the 1861 census, the "T" in Tully has been read as an "F".. If you look at the original on Scotlandspeople, I think you find the name is Tully. I think the John Fraser with that family is your Ann Nora's brother. You need to look for his birth on Scotlandspeople.

I doubt we'll ever know why Ann Nora Fraser used the name Ellen Hamilton when she married but I am quite sure that's her with her Grandmother Ann and Aunt Bridget in 1871 (even although she's listed as Hanora). That John Fraser is with the same Grandmother and Aunt in 1861.

hello again rootgatherer no I don' think this is the same family although
they could be related,Ann Norra had a brother William he was born 6July1857
same place as Ann Norra clyde district,I got the Information from the latter day saints.What do you mean when you say they were mistranscribed.whether
John Hamilton existed idon't know but his name as well as Margarets are on the marriage lines both deceased Reagards Ann :-)

Is this another brother for Ann Nora?

The Tully family have been mistranscibed on the 1861 census ( was hoping Ann Nora may have been with them)


Name: Bridget Fully
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1826
Relationship: Daughter
Father's name: John Fully
Mother's name: Ann Fully
Gender: Female
Where born: Gibraltar
Registration Number: 644/4
Registration district: Calton
Civil Parish: Glasgow St Andrew
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 4 Dyers Lane And 21 Low Green Street
Occupation: Dressmaker
ED: 14
Household schedule number: 61
LINE: 19
Roll: CSSCT1861_102
Household Members:
Name Age
John Fully 61
Ann Fully 62
Bridget Fully 35
Jane Fully 28
John Fraser 3

You may already have this but this looks like Ann Nora's brother William in 1871

William Fraser
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1859
Relationship: Nephew
Gender: Male
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/3
Registration district: Bridgeton
Civil Parish: Glasgow Calton
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 3 William Street
Occupation: Scholar
ED: 119
Household schedule number: 5
LINE: 4
Roll: CSSCT1871_130
Household Members:
Name Age
Hugh Fraser 26
Janes Fraser 22
Margaret Fraser 72
William Fraser 12


I would be thinking that perhaps Margaret had died before 1871?

Are you sure John Hamilton existed? I'm just thinking it's a bit of a co-incidence that he has the same ( all be it a common) first name and occupation as her father. She may have just said her father's surname was Hamilton because she had for some reason changed her own surname. I take it she was a spinster when she married Charles. From the information on the marriage we could assume her mother died before 1878 and after 1859 but I don't see a death for her on the Scotlandspeople indexes.

Austine Q thank you for your help,I already have this Information.
the thing that's bothering me is why my gran changed Ann Norras
name did John Hamilton adopt her.Regards Ann
: :-)

THANK you rootgatherer I don't have this information about the Tullys so far I
have not got the death cert :-) Regards Ann

I just wanted to add this from a previous thread summed up by MaureeninNY

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1289698

Births
Ann Norra Fraser June 1859 Father John Fraser Occ:Shoemaker Journeyman and Margaret nee Tully. Can't read the address. [Address reads 27 Kings Street]
John and Margaret Tilley's marriage (1855,ithink) is on the Old Family Search as well as Ann Norra's birth and that of a brother William (forgot the year).

Marriage
After Banns Dec 27th 1878 at Glasgow. Charles Boyd Shoemaker Journeyman age 21 and Ellen Hamilton Boot machinist age 19.
He of 136 Gallowgate? Glasgow son of William Boyd and May Ann nee Kian** ?
She of 8 St Mungo street Glasgow daughter of John Hamilton Boot Maker (journeyman dec'd and Margaret nee Tilley (dec'd). Witnesses Thomas Leckie? and Susan Boyd.

Death
Ann Norra Boyd widow of Charles Boyd died age 79 Aug. 31 1938 at 12 Pine Street Glasgow. Father John Fraser shoemaker (dec'd) and Margaret nee Tully (dec'd). Informant was Susan Boyd daughter.

Is this your Margaret Tully in 1851 please? (If you have her death certificate it will name her parents if the informant knew the details)



1851 Census


Piece: SCT1851/644 Place: Glasgow -Lanarkshire Enumeration District: 6
Civil Parish: St Mary's Or Tron Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: St Mary's
Folio: 543 Page: 27 Schedule: 90
Address: 22 Bridgegate Street

Surname First name(s) Rel Status Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
TULLY John Head M M 49 Chelsea Pensioner Ireland - -
TULLY Ann Wife M F 50 Ireland - -
TULLY Bridget Dau U F 24 Stay Maker Overseas - British - Gibraltar
TULLY Jane Dau U F 22 Cloth Cap Maker England - -
TULLY Margt Dau U F 18 Overseas - British - Gibraltar
TULLY Ellen Dau U F

I don't think I would dismiss that 1871 census unless you have found another 1871 entry for Ann Nora. Remember that the enumerator would record the name as he thought it sounded. Ann Nora could easily be mistaken for Hanora. Knowing where Little Dovehill is, I would have thought that the Civil Parish of St. James would be within the Clyde District. Of course it may just be co-incidence that there are Tullys in the same household as Hanora Fraser.

Do you know when Ann Nora Fraser became known as Ann Nora Hamilton please?

Hello rootgatherer thank you for your Info but I don't think this is the person I am
looking for my granmother' birth's certificate says clyde districe. Regards Ann
:-)

Thank you AustinQ Ido know about 27King SY , I did try to find Info by address
but no luck. The Family Alviagal sent sounds like John Fraser as he married in
1854 although I don't know where again he is not with his family 1861 .I believe this is when Margaret Tully {tilley) took up with John Hamilton.Margaret changed
Ann Norra Frasers name to Ellen Hamilton. Regards Ann

Is this your Ann Norra in 1871 please?

Hanora Fraser
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relationship: Boarder
Gender: Female
Where born: Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Registration Number: 644/2
Registration district: High Church
Civil Parish: Glasgow St James
County: Lanarkshire
Address: 22 Little Dovehill
ED: 49
Household schedule number: 100
LINE: 3
Roll: CSSCT1871_126
Household Members:
Name Age
Agnes Pratt 65
Agnes Pratt 22
Elizabeth Pratt 17
Michael Kennedy 3
Ann Tully 48
Bridget Tully 38
Hanora Fraser 11

John 1861? Married, but not with wife.

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Bell Street, Saint David, Central, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Margaret Fraser Head Widow Female 57 1804 Domestic Servant Invernessshire,
John Fraser Son Married Male 32 1829 Boot Maker Invernessshire, Scotland
Alexander Fraser Son Unmarried Male 29 1832 Shoe Maker Invernessshire, Scotland
Christina Brown Daughter Married Female 27 1834 Boot Binders Invernessshire, Scotland
William Fraser Son Unmarried Male 24 1837 House Painters Invernessshire, Scotland
Jane Fraser Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1841 Boot Binders Invernessshire, Scotland
Hugh Fraser Son Unmarried Male 17 1844 House Painters Invernessshire, Scotland
Bella Brown Grand Daughter - Female 6 1855 - Greenock, Renfrewshire, Scotland
Ann Brown Grand Daughter - Female 0 1861 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
William Brown Grand Son - Male 0 1861 - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Ancestry transcription has Ann Brown 10 months, and William Brown 1 month

The 1851 for John Fraser put up by Alviegal would seem to be correct:

1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
27, King Street, St Marys, Lanarkshire, Scotland
John Fraser Son Unmarried Male 20 1831 Shoemaker Inverness, Invernessshire, Scotland

This is the address (27 Kings Street) that William & Ann Norra were born at.

So you now have family details for her father.

Thanks everyone not found anything yet, still trying :-)

http://www.genesreunited.co.za/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1300737?d=asc&page=3

(seems to relate above, with info.)

Chris :)

Can't see Margaret and children in 1861 under either surname.