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Christine, I have birth certs where the Mother had a previous marriage and that is the name shown on the birth certs not the maiden name. So I hope I am right.

Brilliant digging Chris, the military info has been passed onto our team expert, thanks.

I am bringing the info up to date so huge thanks to all.

Any further info greatly appreciated by both our tiny team and myself

Hi
"
"but declared her maiden name not her first married name on the birth registrations?

Mother's Maiden Name should be shown on the Birth Certificate, so she was correct to do that

Giggsy.

http://newspapers.library.wales/view/4243303/4243311/143/

(Marriage Announcement for below)

SMITH Eleanor Harriet FOX-WILLIAMS Sidney 1916 Colwyn Bay, St Paul North Wales Conwy County Borough (Llandudno) CW15/2/28

http://www.northwalesbmd.org.uk/index.php

Chris :)

1881 (Find My Past)
Georgius Smith Head Married Male 40 1841 Provision Dealer Staffordshire, England
Sarah Smith Wife Married Female 34 1847 - Egginton, Derbyshire, England
William H Smith Son Single Male 9 1872 Scholar Burton on Trent, Staffordshire, England
Annie B Smith Daughter Single Female 8 1873 Scholar Burton on Trent, Staffordshire, England
Elizabeth Smith Daughter Single Female 6 1875 Scholar Burton on Trent, Staffordshire, England
Ellenor H Smith Daughter Single Female 4 1877 - Burton on Trent, Staffordshire, England
John W Hancock Servant Single Male 16 1865 Shopman (Provision Dealers) Leicestershire, England
Sarah Horner Servant Single Female 19 1862 General Domestic Servant Stapenhill, Derbyshire, England
Street High Street
Parish Burton upon Trent
County Staffordshire
Registration district Burton upon Trent
Archive reference RG11
Piece number 2761
Folio 77
Page 9


1911 (Find My Past)
Sarah Smith Head Widow Female Letting Apartments And Private Means 64 1847 Egginton Derbyshire
Eleanor Harriett Smith Daughter Spinster Female - 32 1879 Burton on Trent Staffs
Henry Taylor Visitor Married Male Chemist And Druggist 54 1857 Marple Cheshire
Letitia Mary Taylor Visitor Married Female None 50 1861 Pendleton Lancashire
Catherine Ann Paulten Visitor Spinster Female - 48 1863 Pendleton Lancashire
Frederick Henry Knock Boarder Single Male Commercial Traveller 54 1857 Cane End Oxford
Address 32 Vic Park Colwyn Bay
Parish Llandrillo Yn Rhos
Census reference RG14 PN34548 RG78 PN1999 RD632 SD3 ED4 SN117


Births Dec 1876 (>99)
------------------------------------------------------
SMITH Eleanor Harriet Burton 6b 398

Deaths Jun 1889 (>99%)
------------------------------------------------
Smith Georgius 48 Burton 6b 222


http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3547816

(Medal Card for Sidney (as Sydney) Williams Fox. R.E.)


(looking at above, Ancestry, seems he was awarded Silver War Badge, as below, also on Ancestry)

Silver War Badge Roll Transcription

First name(s) S. W. (Find My Past)
Last name Fox
Service number 2753
Rank Driver
Badge number 32266
Enlistment date 12-Oct-1915
Discharge date 01-Sep-1916
Regiment/unit E.L.R.E.
Cause of discharge 392/xvi Sickness
Whether served overseas No
Badge date of issue 19-Feb-1917


WILLIAMS-FOX Sidney - 2753 - Royal Engineers
Contents date range 1957 - 1962
Series number K159
Click to see which government agency or person created this item.
Control symbol HP16277
Citation NAA: K159, HP16277
Item barcode 30809487
Location Perth
Access status
Not yet examined Physical format PAPER FILES AND DOCUMENTS (allocated at series level)

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/search/

(Record Search)


Williams Fox Sidney - 1949 Western Australia electoral rolls Western Australia, Australia (Find My Past)

Williams-Fox, Sidney, Boonooloo House, Cotherstone rd., Kalamunda, mgr. M

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1254953

(a Medal Card for Edward H Beckerleg, if relating, probably not, seems to be a popular name, Cornwall!)

Beckerleg Edward Henry 1886 — 1906 British Army Service Records Ayr Lane, St Ives, Cornwall, England

(probably above, looking on FMP. Father as Stephen, St Ives, Cornwall)

Chris :)

(also below comes up)

British Casualties, Korean War 1950-1953 Transcription

First name(s) E G
Last name Beckerley
Rank Trooper
Battalion 8th King's Royal Irish Hussars
Regiment or Service Royal Armoured Corps
Event Prisoner of war
Event year 1950
Event date 1950
Notes Reported missing in action then as a prisoner of war

There is a Katherine Williams living with them on the London Electoral Registers.

There are 2 people who have Elizabeth Mitchell born 1892 in Tredegar in their trees, a Katherine and a Gemma.

Thanks all for helping me.

So either Sidney was a bit of a cad or a bigamist or did actually acquire a super fast divorce, did or did not Father Thomas I, or Elizabeth found someone between Sidney and Edward :-(

What a confusing family.

We now know we do have the dilemma of what information we put into the history and once I have tracked any local descendants just how diplomatic I have to be in asking for further information. If there aren't any (highly unlikely) that doesn't present so much of a problem. We are always very sensitive with the information we divulge, some would come as quite a shock.

I am going to come forward in the history today but will return to this later to check for replies.

You are all fantastic

:-D

Sue x

https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/#wills

Eleanor Harriet Williams-Fox died 16th October 1972 at Wolseley Home, Plymouth

Probate - £624

Collection Electoral registers 1832-1932

In 1931 Eleanor and Sidney were living at Ley Cottage, Yarcombe, Devon

Returned to UK after Sidney's death presumably, but still there in 1963


Australia, Electoral Rolls, 1903-1980

Name: Eleanor Williams-Fox

Gender: Female

Electoral Year: 1963

Subdistrict: Perth

State: Western Australia

District: Perth

Country: Australia

Snap Choccy but different DOB, I like your one :-)

OMG!!!!! I need to have a good think now lolol

There is this entry which gives Eleanor's birth date with a 6 year difference to 1939 reg.

First name(s) ELEANOR HARRIET
Last name WILLIAMS-FOX
Gender Female
Birth day 23
Birth month 10
Birth year 1900
Age -
Death quarter 4
Death year 1972
District PLYMOUTH
County Devon

England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007


Name: Eleanor Harrit Williams-fox

Birth Date: 23 Oct 1876

Date of Registration: Dec 1972

Age at Death: 96

Registration district: Plymouth

Inferred County: Devon

Volume: 7a

Page: 2035

1939 Register


Williams-Fox Household (2 People)

Riverside Cottage , Gipping R.D., Suffolk, England

Sidney Williams-Fox 30 Jan 1888 Male Mechanical Engineer Oil Married 30 1
Eleanor Williams-Fox 23 Oct 1884 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 30 2



He's on the London Electoral registers with Eleanor at various times


There's also this -


India, Select Deaths and Burials, 1719-1948

Name:Marguarita Eleanore Williams-Fox

Gender:Female

Age:3

Birth Date:1918

Death Date:11 Sep 1921

Burial Date:12 Sep 1921

Burial Place:Calcutta, Bengal, India

Father:Sydney Williams-Fox

Mother:Eleanore


and this -

Passenger Lists leaving UK 1890-1960


First name(s) SIDNEY

Last name WILLIAMS-FOX

GenderMale

Age35

Birth year1889

Occupation TEA PLANTER

Departure year1924

Departure day3

Departure month4

Departure portLIVERPOOL

Destination portCALCUTTA

Destination countryINDIA

Ship nameACTOR

Ship official number140541

Ship master's first nameE

Ship master's last nameHAYLET

Shipping lineTHOS & JAS HARRISON

CityLIVERPOOL

Ship destination portCALCUTTA

Ship destination countryINDIA

Ship registered tonnage3467

Address given as - 26 Albert Grove, Longsight, Manchester

Oooooer........did he just add -Fox to confuse people?

Did he still Father Thomas I in 1918?

PARACETEMOL please

x

the Sidney in Australia is the same person- and he did marry again in 1916 to Eleanor:

name(s) ELEANOR HARRIET SMITH
Birth year 1884
Marriage year 1916
Marriage day 01
Marriage month Jan
Marriage place COLWYN BAY
Spouse's name(s) SIDNEY WILLIAMS FOX
Groom's age 28
Groom's father's name(s) James Constantine Williams Fox
Bride's age 32
Bride's father's name(s) Georgins Smith
County Denbighshire
Country Wales
Record set Denbigh Marriages
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Marriages & divorces
Collections from Great Britain

To summarise so far (if you spot an error please point it out) lolol

I can find no marriage between Elizabeth Mitchell and Edward Henry Beckerley/g

There is a marriage between an Elizabeth WILLIAMS and Edward Henry Beckerley in 1924 (Bedwellty).

However there IS a marriage between Elizabeth Mitchell and Sidney Lloyd Owen Williams in 1913 (Bedwellty).

Two births for Williams (nee Mitchell)

Nora born and died 1913 (Bedwellty)
Thomas I born 1918. (Bedwellty)

The first birth for a Beckerley/g nee Mitchell is
Edward G 1920
and a further 7 children up until 1936.

So....is the assumption that Elizabeth Mitchell married Sidney Williams, marriage broke down after having 2 children with him and she had further children with Edward Beckerley/g BEFORE she married him in 1924 but declared her maiden name not her first married name on the birth registrations?

That makes some sort of sense to me.

Re Sidney, he is a bit of a mystery and I'm hoping if he can be found somewhere after 1919 as that would be great.

Thanks for reading and helping

Sue

Thanks Dea x

Not too sure about that death in Australia as the surname is Williams-Fox and there is this person on 1939 who seems to fit with him:

Williams-Fox Household (2 People) Riverside Cottage , Gipping R.D., Suffolk, England
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Sidney Williams-Fox 30 Jan 1888 Mechanical Engineer Oil
Eleanor Williams-Fox 23 Oct 1884 Unpaid Domestic Duties

This 'may' be their marriage??


Marriages Mar 1916 (>99%)
Evans Laura E Fletcher Conway 11b 689 Scan available - click to view
Fletcher Robert L Evans Conway 11b 689 Scan available - click to view
Thomas Thomas W Williams Conway 11b 689 Scan available - click to view
Williams Dorothy Thomas Conway 11b 689 Scan available - click to view
**Williams-Fox Sidney Smith Conway 11b 689 Scan available - click to view

Transcribed seperately:
**Smith Eleanor H Williams-Fex Conway 11b 659

Of course, he may not have been with Elizabeth by that time and I can't see a birth reg for him in that name.

Trying to follow him further.....................

Dea x

Thank you for the replies, I'll do some extra research on the info you have kindly given and return to this thread later.

Sue