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Maddie - the Eliza Box who died in 1885 can't be the mother if she had children in 1859.

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BOX, ELIZA 15
GRO Reference: 1855 D Quarter in SEVENOAKS UNION Volume 02A Page 209

JoonieCloonie I cannot find John Box in the GRO birth index.

That's good John but I'm not seeing him on later census!

rootgatherer I think that is John Box. The Tapsells are also related.

???????????

Eliza Box
England, Kent, Parish Registers
Name Eliza Box
Event Type Burial
Event Date 04 Nov 1855
Event Place Otford, Kent, England
Citing this Record

"England, Kent, Parish Registers, 1538-1911," database with images,


Eliza Box
England and Wales Death Registration Index 1837-2007
Name Eliza Box
Event Type Death
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year 1855
Registration District Sevenoaks
County Kent
Event Place Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Volume 2A
Page 209
Line Number 33

Maybe?


1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Sevenoaks, Kent, England

Alfred Tapsell Head - Male 35 1836 - Kent, England
Julia Tapsell Wife - Female 32 1839 - Kent, England
Caroline Tapsell Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Kent, England
Alfred G Tapsell Son - Male 7 1864 - Kent, England
Howard G Tapsell Son - Male 4 1867 - Kent, England
Richard Tapsell Son - Male 2 1869 - Kent, England
John Box Lodger - Male 18 1853 - Kent, England



John's occupation on the image is "Journeyman Baker". Place of birth on image is Bexley.

GRO free search gives the age of the Sevenoaks Deaths. They don't seem to correspond with John's year of birth

BOX, JOHN 23
GRO Reference: 1863 M Quarter in SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 281

BOX, JOHN 85
GRO Reference: 1865 S Quarter in OF SEVENOAKS Volume 02A Page 275

Added - considering the youngest 2 were born in Bexleyheath (Dartford reg) John's death is more likely to be this one

BOX, JOHN 39
GRO Reference: 1859 D Quarter in DARTFORD Volume 02A Page 148

Burial?
John Box
Birth Year: abt 1821
Age: 38
Burial Date: 30 Oct 1859
Burial Place: Crayford, England
Chapelry: St Paulinus
Parish as it Appears: Crayford

could be john
Box John — 1863 1863 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Transcription
Image
Box John — 1865 1865 England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007 Sevenoaks, Kent, England

Malyon it is not SPRIKET it is as I posted, SPICKET for the older children and SPICKETT for the younger children

How could the mother have been unmarried when the marriage occurred before their births? the absence of a mother's surname does not necessarily mean unmarried, these were early registrations and it may just not have been recorded.

from fmp


1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
22, Stanhope Street, St Pauls, Greenwich, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Eliza Chattenton Wife Widow Female 35 1826 Laundress Deptford, Kent, England
Transcription
William Box Son - Male 12 1849 - Deptford, Kent, England
Transcription
Rhuben Box Son - Male 10 1851 - Deptford, Kent, England
Transcription
John Box Son - Male 7 1854 - Deptford, Kent, England
Transcription
George Box Son - Male 5 1856 - Deptford, Kent, England
Transcription
Eliza Box Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Kent, England
Transcription
Ann Box Daughter - Female 2 1859 - Kent, England

says widow on image

the children on the 1861 cencus mother maiden name spriket except William and ruben born box no mothers name given so looks like mother was box unmarried

Flip I have seen that image and it clearly says widow.

George Box's Probate

George Box
Death Date: 13 Mar 1900
Death Place: Middlesex, England
Probate Date: 9 Apr 1900
Registry: London, England

Of 61 Cornwall Rd, West Green, Tottenham, Middlesex, Baker died 13 March 1900. Probate to Fanny Mallon Box, widow, £516 7s 2d.

They all look likely.

JoonieCloonie I could not find William in the GRO index.

Annie Box
Event Type Census
Event Date 1881
Event Place Great Berkhampstead, Hertfordshire, England
Registration District Berkhampstead
Residence Note High Street
Gender Female
Age 26
Marital Status (Original) Single
Occupation Barmaid (Inn Serv)
Relationship to Head of Household Servant
Birth Year (Estimated) 1855
Birthplace Sevenoaks, Kent, England
Page Number 9
Registration Number RG11
Piece/Folio 1446/68
Affiliate Record Type Household

Can someone look at the image for this census as familysearch has her as wife, rather than widow;

Name Rhuben Box
County London, Kent
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place St Pauls, London, Kent, England
Ecclesiastical Parish St Pauls
Registration District Greenwich
Residence Note Stanhope Street
Gender Male
Age 10
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birth Year (Estimated) 1851
Birthplace Deptford, Kent
Page Number 28
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 395 / 62
Affiliate Record Type Household
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace

Eliza Chattenton Wife F 35 Deptford, Kent
William Box Son M 12 Deptford, Kent
Rhuben Box Son M 10 Deptford, Kent
John Box Son M 7 Deptford, Kent
George Box Son M 5 Deptford, Kent
Eliza Box Daughter F 4 Derby Heath, Kent
Ann Box Daughter F 2 Derby Heath, Kent

Citing this Record
"England and Wales Census, 1861," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2MG-V211 : 6 April 2016), Rhuben Box in household of Eliza Chattenton, St Pauls, London, Kent, England; from "1861 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 9, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey.

The same tree owner seems to be a decendent of George, with a quite extensive list of sources.

This is believed to be his marriage
George Box
Registration Year 1880
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration district Westminster
Parishes for this Registration District Westminster
Inferred County London
Volume 1a
Page 924
Household Members
Name Age
George Box <<<<
Fanny Charlotte Baily
Edward Bridger
Fanny Mallon Shrubb <<<<
Fanny Mallon Shrubs <<<<

1891
George Box
Age: 36
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny Box
[Annie Box]
Gender: Male
Where born: Chelsfield, Kent, England
Civil Parish: Tottenham
Ecclesiastical parish: St Ann
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Edmonton
George Box Head Male 36 1855 Chelsfield Kent England (occ Baker)
Fanny Box Wife Female 30 1861 Alford Kent England
Annie Box Daughter Female 9 1882 Westminster
Harriett Box Daughter Female 7 1884 Barnsbury
Eliza Box Daughter Female 1 1890 West Green Middlesex England
John Frick Servant Male 17 1874 Canning Town

??????

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

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First name(s) Ann
Last name Box
Relationship Inmate
Marital status -
Gender Female
Age 10
Birth year 1861
Occupation -
Birth town -
Birth county -
Birth county as transcribed NOT KNOWN
Birth place Not Known
House name -
Street Sevenoaks Union Workhouse
Parish Sundridge
Town -
City -
County Kent
Country England
Registration district Sevenoaks
Archive reference RG10
Piece number 924
Folio 87
Page 5
Record set 1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census
Category Census, land & surveys
Subcategory Census
Collections from Great Britain

A tree on Ancestry suggests that this is Eliza 1859 on the 1871 census

Eliza Box
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1860
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Female
Where born: N
Civil Parish: Sundridge
Town: Sundridge
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Registration district: Sevenoaks
Sub-registration district: Sevenoaks
ED, institution, or vessel: Sevenoaks Union Workhouse

They also suggest (no sources) that she died in the USA.

????

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
188, Piccadilly, St James Westminster, Westminster, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Alice Mary Bradshaw Wife Married Female 20 1861 Baker Cook & Confectioner Wife Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Ada Elizabeth Batchelor Sister In Law Single Female 22 1859 Baker Cook & Confectioner Assistant Pimlico, Middlesex, England
Transcription
Caroline Louisa Goodall Servant Single Female 20 1861 General Servant Domestic Westminster, Middlesex, England
Transcription
George Box Workman Married Male 27 1854 Bread Baker Chelsfield, Kent, England
Transcription
John Galling Workman Single Male 19 1862 Porter To Baker Exeter, Devon, England


he ws a baker in 1871 census