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Thank you Deborah :-)

I will let you all know. Xxxx

I thought Baxters was Speyside or Moray nearer Aberdeenshire. I think parts of Forfarshire (Angus) were sometimes classed as Perthshire. John O Duff specifies his birth place as Perth on the census records.

I just wonder if, when he said his family were in the wine and spirit trade, he was actually referring to an uncle?

Are you intending to buy the marriage certificate Deborah? If you do can you please come back to the thread and tell us who John's father is please?

Thankyou everyoune. Appreciated :-)

clearly the wedding cert is needed

can't find any connections to Baxters, their business was in forfarshire

Not that it helps but finally found Walter Mistranscribed in 1851


1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Meal Vennel Ballingalls Land, Perth, Perthshire, Scotland

William Hupp Head Married Male 44 1807 Cotton Weaver Perthshire, Scotland
Cathaine Hupp Wife Married Female 42 1809 - Perthshire, Scotland
Walter Hupp Son - Male 15 1836 Rope Maker Perthshire, Scotland
William Hupp Son - Male 13 1838 Scholar Perthshire, Scotland
Catharine Hupp Daughter - Female 7 1844 Scholar Perthshire, Scotland
Mary Hupp Daughter - Female 1 1850 - Perthshire, Scotland

maybe strange but william in 1841 comes back to the one in 1861 on page one a concertina maker

parents

Name: William Duff
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 30 Dec 1830
Marriage Place: Perth,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Catharine Bruce

her brother ??? in 1841 census

Thanks Maddie. I knew I had seen it somewhere.

Just need now to try to follow up on Walter's siblings who may have been old enough to be a parent to John.

1841

Piece: SCT1841/387 Place: Perth -Perth Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Perth-St Leonards Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: Perth-St Leonards
Folio: 1 Page: 11
Address: Kinnoul Causeway

Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
DUFF William M 35 Cotton Hand Loom Weaver Perth
DUFF Cathrine F 30 Perth
DUFF Elizabeth F 9 Perth
DUFF Walter M 5 Perth
DUFF Willm. M 3 Perth
DUFF Janet F 8m Perth
BRUCE Wm. M 25 Blacksmith

rootgatherer
is this the one

in the UK, City and County Directories, 1766 - 1946

Name: Walter Duff
Publication Year: 1887
Address: 105 High street h 101
Residence Place: Perthshire, Scotland
Occupation: Wine And Spirit Merchant
Publication Title: 1887 Leslie's Directory

ame: Walter Duff
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 18 Sep 1857
Marriage Place: Perth,Perth,Scotland
Spouse: Mary Ann Christie
FHL Film Number: 6035516

high street runs parallel to south street

This family. Need to search more on Walter's parents and siblings.


1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
53, South Street, Middle Church, Perth, Perthshire, Scotland

Walter Duff Head Married Male 47 1834 Inn Keeper Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Mary Ann Duff Wife Married Female 41 1840 Inn Keepers Wife Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Eliza Duff Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1861 Housekeeper Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Walter Duff Son Unmarried Male 18 1863 Apprentice Ironmonger Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
John Duff Son - Male 14 1867 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Mary Ann Duff Daughter - Female 12 1869 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
James Duff Son - Male 11 1870 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Cathrine B Duff Daughter - Female 9 1872 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Robert P Duff Son - Male 6 1875 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Charles P Duff Son - Male 7 1874 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland
Margart Mcl Duff Daughter - Female 4 1877 Scholar Perth, Perthshire, Scotland


From the birth of the children Mary Ann's maiden name is Christie

Don't know if it is relevant but in 1897 a Mrs. Walter Duff is listed at the Fifeshire Inn in South Street, Perth and I have found a Walter Duff earlier as a Wine and Spirit Dealer. I'm wondering if this is your John's wine and spirit connection.

I have to go out shortly but will try to dig a little deeper into that later (if nobody else can in the meantime). It might help even for elimination purposes.

Bless thankyou for your help. Xx

Deborah, you really need to buy a copy of the marriage certificate to see if he gave details of his father. That really is the only way to trace his line further back.

There is no recorded birth for a John Duff with that middle name but quite a few options with no middle name. He may even have been registered with that middle name as a surname if he was illegitimate. Or Duff may have been his mother's name but he knew who his father was and added his surname as a middle name. Either way, you need that marriage certificate to have any hope of trace the correct family.

John ormond duff married rachel ainsley wilson. She was from northumberland. Thats all i know abot him.

John ormond duff married rachel ainsley wilson. She was from northumberland. Thats all i know abot him.

William Duff and Isabella McGregor didn't marry until 1854.

Unless they had any children born before they married, all births should be on statutory records.

William Duff
Spouse's Name Isabella Mcgregor
Event Date 01 Dec 1854
Event Place Perth,Perth,Scotland
However, this couple does not look right for the parents of John Ormond Duff.....

1891-1911 censuses for John O Duff and wife Rachael are posted above.
This man was a weighman/ coalminer/ Shop ?

John, the son of William and Isabella is still in Perth and is a Dyer
He is at home with his parents, his wife and child from his 1st marriage


1891: 35 Queen Street
Name Age
William Duff 56
Isabella Duff 60
Isabella Duff 25
Jane Duff 19
William M Duff 21
*****John Duff 34 DYER b Perth
*****Jessie Duff 44 Daughter in law. B Dumfries
*****William Duff 13 Grandson

child named William was the son of John Duff and Jessie MacLeod who married in
Stoer, Sutherland in 1876.
Jessie died in 1878 and their son can be found with his maternal grandfather in Stoer, at 1881
John Duff remarried Jessie Milligan in Dumfries 1881.


1901: Abbey Road, Scone

John Duff 44 DYER b Perth
Jessie Duff 53 wife b Dumfries

Jessie Duff other name Milligan died in Scone in 1904

As previously stated, the Duff/Wilson marriage cert will be required for the father's name and occupation

Oops! That should have said between 1855 and 1860.

Thankyou for your help. X

Deborah, There are quite a few John Duffs born in Perthshire between 1885 and 1860. I think you need to buy his marriage certificate to see who he gives, if any for his father.