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I'm trying to find out where my paternal grandmother ( and grandfather were born (. I believe they both came from Co Mayo and my grandmother was born in 1888. My grandfather was John Foy and he died in England 28/02/1930 aged 39.I have found that a Mary Cummins married a John Foy April-June 1911 in Ballinamallard. I am trying to trace where they came from for a cousin who will be visiting Ireland from America in August. Any help would be greatly appreciated. They both lived in Haydock, a village which was in Lancashire when my grandfather died so I assume they moved to England after they married.

Sorry I didn't read this through properly, it should say details found of a marriage between Mary Cummins & John Foy April-June 1911 in Ballina, not Ballinamallard. :-(

Welcome to the boards, Mary.

There were a few John Foys born in England in 1891 - are you just assuming he was Irish because he married in Ireland?

Have you bought a copy of the marriage certificate to find out their fathers' names?

Ballinamallard is in Fermanagh, not Mayo. Why do you think they were from Mayo - is it family lore, or based on any fact?

How do I get a copy of the marriage certificate please?

There's this marriage, in Mayo - not Ballinamallard.

Is this them? If so, it gives their parents' names.

Maria Cummins
in the Ireland, Select Catholic Marriage Registers, 1775-1912
Name: Maria Cummins
Marriage Date: 13 May 1911
Marriage Place: Kilmoremoy, Mayo, Ireland
Other Parish Name: Ballina
Father: Martinus Cummins
Mother: Catherine Newcomb
Spouse: Joannes Foy
Spouse Father: Patritii Foy
Spouse Mother: Katherina Durcan


The image says that John lived in Ardagh, and Mary in Ballysokerry.

Ballysokerry is Mayo, and Ardagh (as far as I can see on Google) is in Co Longford.

EDIT:

No, I see there's an Ardagh in Mayo, near Ballina.

http://www.libraryireland.com/topog/A/Ardagh-Tyrawley-Mayo.php

From A Topographical Dictionary of Ireland, 1837

ARDAGH, a parish, in the barony of TYRAWLEY, county of MAYO, and province of CONNAUGHT, 2 ¾ miles (W. S. W.) from Ballina; containing 1813 inhabitants. This parish is situated on the shores of Lough Conn and the river Deel, and on the road from Ballina to Crossmolina: it comprises 3215 statute acres, as applotted under the tithe act, and valued at £1794 per annum; the land is chiefly under tillage. There are large tracts of bog, furnishing abundance of fuel. Deel Castle, the seat of St. George Cuff, Esq., is delightfully situated on the river Deel, and in a fine demesne. Fairs are held at Newtown on the 4th of Aug. and the 1st of Nov. The living is a vicarage, in the diocese of Killala, with the vicarages of Ballynahaglish, Kilbelfad, Kilmoremoy, Attymass, and Kilgarvan episcopally united, constituting the union of Ardagh, in the patronage of the Bishop: the rectory is partly appropriate to the precentorship of the cathedral of Killala, and partly to the vicars choral of the cathedral of Christchurch, Dublin. The tithes amount to £110. 15. 4 ½., of which £38. 10. 10. is payable to the precentor of Killala, £13. 16. 11. to the vicars choral, and £55. 7. 8 ½. to the vicar. The glebes, which are detached, comprise together 31 acres; and the gross tithes payable to the incumbent amount to £948. 19. 2 ¼. The church of this parish is in ruins, and the church of the union is situated at Kilmoremoy. An episcopal chapel has been partly built at Deel Castle, but is not yet roofed. The R. C. parish is co-extensive with that of the Established Church: the chapel, a neat slated building, is situated at Newtown. Here is a school of 60 boys and 30 girls.

From FamilySearch:

Kilmoremoy Parish Church served as the church for the union of Ardagh, county Mayo which includes also the vicarages of Attymass, Ballynahglish, Kilbelfad and Kilgarvan, the church built in 1763 was at Ardnaree, county Mayo.

This is the only family which MIGHT be Mary's in 1911.

Residents of a house 23 in Ballybrooney (Rathoma, Mayo)

Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion
Cummins Martin 55 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic - Herd & Ag Lab.
Cummins Catherine 55 Female Wife Roman Catholic
Cummins John 30 Male Son Roman Catholic
Cummins Margaret 21 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Cummins Ellen 16 Female Daughter Roman Catholic
Cummins Thomas 14 Male Son Roman Catholic



And 1901:


Mary Commons
in the Web: Ireland, Census, 1901
Name: Mary Commons
Gender: Female
Age: 12
Birth Year: abt 1889
Relation to Head: Daughter
Residence Date: 31 Mar 1901
Townland/Street: Ballybroony
District: Rathoma
County: Mayo
Household Members:
Name Age
Martin Commons 45 - herd and caretaker (would fit with "farmer" on marriage cert)
Catherine Commons 43
Bridget Commons 18
Annie Commons 16
Michael Commons 14
Mary Commons 12
Maggie Commons 10
Katie Commons 9
Ellen Commons 6
Thomas Commons 4

I think this may be the family in 1939 with Mary remarried in 1931 to Patrick Gavin?


Corrigan (Foy) Household (8 People) 20 Davies Avenue , Newton-le-Willows U.D., Lancashire, England
Start free family tree
View original image
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First name(s) Last name(s) DOB Occupation
Mary Gavin 13 Sep 1890 Unpaid Domestic Duties
Annie Corrigan (Foy) 01 Jul 1917 Bar General
Agnes Harrison (Foy) 06 Jun 1920 Strip Mill Aluminium Worker(Heavy Worker)
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Thomas Foy 21 May 1927 At School
Patrick Gavin 29 Sep 1932 At School
Teresa Daiken (Gavin) 24 Aug 1934 At School


Marriages Sep 1931 (>99%)
Burrell John W Holt Warrington 8c 529 Scan available - click to view
**Foy Mary Gavin Warrington 8c 529 Scan available - click to view
**Gavin Patrick J Foy Warrington 8c 529 Scan available - click to view
Holt Lilian A Burrell Warrington 8c 529

Dea x

EDIT - Patrick's birth reg confirms that this is the correct family:

Births Dec 1932 (>99%)
Gavin Patrick Cummins Warrington 8c 177

Dea x

AG posted the details from the Catholic register- these are the details from the civil entry:

Marriage:

13th May 1911 Catholic Cathedral of Ballina

John Foy 21 Bachelor, farmer, Ardagh father: Patick Foy, farmer
Mary Cummins 20 Spinster, Cooneal, father: Martin Cummins, farmer

Witnesses: James Clarke & Kate Cummins

John in 1901?

Residents of a house 2 in Ballymanagh (Ardagh, Mayo)
Show all information
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses
Foy Patt 45 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Mayo Farmer Read and write English and Irish Married -
Foy Catherine 44 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Mayo - Read and write Irish and English Married -
Foy Mary 16 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Not Married -
Foy John 11 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Not Married -
Foy James 9 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write - Not Married -

Possible child born in Ballina:

Birth:
10th February 1913
Mary Ellen Foy
Born Brook street, Ballina
Father: John Foy (Labourer)
Mother: Mary Cummons

A possibility for John's birth:

John Foy
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: John Foy
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1890
Registration district: Ballina
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 4
Page: 7
FHL Film Number: 101063

Mary's birth ??

Mary Commons
in the Ireland, Civil Registration Births Index, 1864-1958
Name: Mary Commons
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1889
Registration district: Ballina
Birth Country: Ireland
Volume: 4
Page: 14
FHL Film Number: 101062

For the births AG posted above (look good!):

Birth:
24th August 1890
John Foy
Born: Ballymanagh
Father: Pat Foy, farmer
Mother: Catherine Foy (formerly Durkan)
District: Ballina
--------------------------------

Birth:
4th February 1889
Mary Commons
Born Farnagh
Father: Martin Commons (farm Labourer)
Mother: Catherine Commons (formerly Newcom)
District: Ballina

AG has given somw civil rego reference info

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FBTG-X4D
Mary Ellen Foye;
citing Ballina, Apr - Jun 1913, vol. 4, p. 3

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY6L-YZ8
John Foy;
citing Ballina, Apr - Jun 1911, vol. 4, p. 12
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FY6G-Y6D
Mary Cummins;
citing Ballina, Apr - Jun 1911, vol. 4, p. 12,

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FRKH-Z44
Name Martin Commons
Event Type Death
Event Date Jul - Sep 1915
Event Place Ballina, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jul - Sep 1915
Registration District Ballina
Age 59
Birth Year (Estimated) 1856
Volume Number 4
[citing Ballina, Jul - Sep 1915, vol. 4, p. 8]

You can buy Irish BMDs via
http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Apply-for-Certificates.aspx

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/GRO_Fees.aspx
Birth Certificate €20
Marriage Certificate €20
Civil Partnership Certificate €20
Death Certificate €20
Uncertified copy (photocopy) €4

As you can see from the Fee Schedule, there's some savings to be made from ordering uncertified images.
They are not be any good for legal purposes - like getting a passport, etc., but they're the same images that would be stuck on an official BMD cert.

----------------------

Searching at: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/

MC 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Rathoma/Ballybrooney/702645/
If you check the "Show all information" box, the transcription includes birthplace (Co Mayo), occup, literacy and language, marital status, years marr (31) and 9 live births with 9 still living.

The info is on the image, but it's handy to have a transcription.
Also on the image links, obviously one wants to see Form A,
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai002954172/
but there's some useful info on the other images.
Form A2 gives the poor law union (Ballina) and the household sequence number (23).
Like England in 1837, rego districts were based on the poor law union - in this case, we already knew Ballina was the one of interest.
The household sequence number is useful when looking at the N, B1 and B2 forms.


MC 1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Rathoma/Ballybroony/1574821/
Hee the poor law union is on Form N

PF 1901 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Ardagh/Ballymanagh/1573769/

PF 1911 http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Mayo/Ardagh/Ballymanagh/701660/
Residents of a house 1 in Ballymanagh (Ardagh, Mayo)
Surname Forename Age Sex Relation to head Religion Birthplace Occupation Literacy Irish Language Marital Status Specified Illnesses Years Married Children Born Children Living
Foye Patrick 57 Male Head of Family R Catholic Co Mayo Farmer Read and write Irish and English Widower - 22 4 3
Foye Mary 25 Female Daughter R Catholic Co Mayo - Read and write English Single - - - -
Foye John 20 Male Son R Catholic Co Mayo Farmers Son Read and write Irish and English Single - - - -
Foye James 18 Male Son R Catholic Co Mayo Scholar Read and write Irish and English Single - - - -

mgnv- I did post the details for those certificates.

Please do not waste your money buying them. The images are available here for FREE:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Using http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/ and http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/index.php
Cheshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1931
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GAVIN * Patrick J CUMMINS Mary Warrington, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Warrington R/80/140
GAVIN * Patrick J FOY Mary Warrington, Civil Marriage or Registrar Attended Warrington R/80/140
[one marr - entry number 140 in the 80th vo;lume of registrar's marrs - but indexes under two bridal names]
[This could be an RC marr - post-1898, non-conformists could apply to be authorized to keep official marr rego's - but the RCs chose not to until 1980-ish (a bit earlier in Lancs(.
So, at an RC marr, the registrar (or deputy/asst) would need to attend with an official marr rego for the couple to sign to conclude the ceremony - the registrar would also sign the rego. Course, it could be a rego office marr]

There were several RC churches in or near Newton-le-Willows:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2746687
SJ5895 : St Mary's & St John's R.C. Church, Newton-le-Willows
Subject Location SJ 5810 9567 [10m precision]

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1314754
SJ5894 : St Davids Catholic Church
Subject Location SJ 583 946 [100m precision]

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/3320101
SJ5695 : Earlestown, St Patrick's RC Church
Subject Location SJ 5651 9534 [10m precision]

As you can tell from the Subject Location, St Patricks is 2km W of St Mary's & St John's, whilst St Davids is 1km S.

You can lookup OS grid refs (like SJ 5651 9534) at
http://www.streetmap.co.uk/

-------------------

NB Cummins is not spelled consistantly

Irish Births Jun 1913 (REFORMATTED%)
Foye Mary Ellen Ballina 4 8

Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Foy Katherine Cummins Warrington 8c 298

Births Sep 1917 (>99%)
Foy Annie Cummins Warrington 8c 265

Births Sep 1920 (>99%)
Foy Agnes Cummings Warrington 8c 309

Births Dec 1922 (>99%)
Foy Margaret Cummins Warrington 8c 215

Births Sep 1924 (>99%)
Foy James J Cummings Warrington 8c 227

Births Sep 1927 (>99%)
Foy Thomas Cummins Warrington 8c 191

Births Dec 1932 (>99%)
Gavin Patrick Cummins Warrington 8c 177

Births Sep 1934 (>99%)
Gavin Teresa Cummins Newton 8c 267



Deaths Mar 1930 (>99%)
Foy John 39 Warrington 8c 187



Lancashire Birth indexes for the years:
Surname Forename(s) Mother's Maiden Name Sub-District Registers At Reference
1915 FOY Catherine Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/89/40
1917 FOY Annie Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/92/47
1920 FOY Agnes Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/97/3
1922 FOY Margaret Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/100/58
1924 FOY James J Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/103/16
1926 FOY Thomas Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/107/24 [1926 is a mistranscription of 1927]
-----------
1932 GAVIN Patrick Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/113/16
1934 GAVIN Teresa Newton-le-Willows St Helens NLW/1A/44


Newton-le-Willows deaths are only indexed at lancsBMD up to 1916

Just to confirm (local) Catherine and (GRO) Katherine refer to the same birth. I clicked on FreeBMD's page number to show all the names on that page
I then looked up the local refs for the GRO names. Since the GRO has a copy frrom the lopcal rego, and these copies were just made by copying page after page from the ;ocal rego, the local refs shouldrefer to a continuous block of rego's.
Pre-1911q3, the GRO B & D pages had 10 entries, but the local rego's had 5 entries per page.
These GRO copies usually begin on the 1st line of the 1st page and continue until the entire quarter has been copied for that subdistrict.
The RD then collects the copies from each subdistrict (e.g., Warrington RD - subdistricts Newton in Makerfield, Winwick, Sankey, Warrington, Rixton) and forwards them to the GRP after checking therm.
The GRO then binds them (along with some neighbouring RDs) into volumes which it pagintes and ndexes.
Post-1911q2, the GRO started using pages with 5 entries per page - same as the local rego's.
Some RDs carried on with the first entry of each quarter on line 1 as before, but many (incl Warrington & Newton) started aligning its copies with its rego's.

Here's the entry in question, with the local ref appended, and one example name from the same page.
Births Jun 1915 (>99%)
Foy Katherine Cummins Warrington 8c 298 NLW/89/40
Hatton Edna E E Shaw Warrington 8c 298 NLW/89/40

As we can see, the local refs refer to the same local page (40) in vol 89 of the Newton-le-Willows subdistrict rego's.
On 1/4/1934, Newton RD was set up. It contained the old Warrington RD subdistricts of Nwton and Winwick.
Newton RD was abolished 1/4/1974, and the Newton rego's went to St Helens RD, and the Winwick rego's went to Warrington RD which was now transferred to Cheshire.

As an aside, there's no k in the Irish alphabet.
I think it's a bit odd that names like Ciarraí and Cill Dara should be transliterated as Kerry and Kildare
-------------------

Re Dea's posted 1939 - the 7 kids were all born after 1916 - the 5 named are known to have died (like the 2 unnamed kids, most likely)

Marriages Jun 1940 (>99%)
Foy Agnes Harrison Newton 8c 601
Harrison John Foy Newton 8c 601

Marriages Sep 1952 (>99%)
Corrigan John Foy Newton 10f 56
FOY Annie Corrigan Newton 10f 56

Marriages Mar 1958 (>99%)
DAIKEN Raymond E GAVIN Liverpool S. 10d 1154
GAVIN Teresa DAIKEN Liverpool S. 10d 1154

I'll not try looking up any potential marrs - since they're your aunts and uncles, you probably know at least their spouse's forename, if not the rego detail.

Hi the Lancashire birth indexes are all my dad's (Thomas Foy born 1927, the youngest of the Foys) brothers and sisters, there are 2 missing, the eldest which make me wonder if they were born in Ireland, I have found out that my granny's maiden name was Cummins and she was born around 1888, but don't know how to view a copy of her birth certificate, I have found a marriage in Ballina April-June 1911 between a John Foy and a Mary Cummins which could be my grandparents, I don't have any details of any of my grandfather's family as I think he died when my own father was 3 years old and similarly don't have any details of my grandmother's family except that I know she came from Co Mayo. Thanks for all the information you have provided. I am very grateful and will let you know if I find anything definite. :-)

Mary -

AustinQ has already told you how to view Mary Cummins (spelled Commons on the original document) birth record .

Here's the link to the website again. You can view an image of the original, and print a copy for yourself free of charge.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

I'll send you a saved copy of it by private message. Look out for an email from GenesReunited telling you I've sent you a message.

If you want to buy an official copy of the record, you can do so through that same website.

EDIT:

I'll also send you a saved copy of the marriage cert.

AustinQ - a BIG thank you for posting that URL viz:

https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp

Using it, I was able to get images of the b.certs of an uncle and 2 cousins of my m-i-l's , but not their grandparents.

The years covered by the release of the historic Indexes to the Civil Records of Births, Marriages and Deaths are:
Births: 1864 to 1915
Marriages: 1845* to 1940
Deaths: 1864 to 1965
*non-Roman Catholic Marriages are recorded from 1845, Roman Catholic Marriages are recorded from 1864

However, what images are currently online is
Births: 1864 to 1915
Marriages: 1882** to 1940
Deaths: 1891** to 1965
**The General Register Office are currently working on updating further records of Marriages dating back to 1845 and Deaths dating back to 1864.These will be included in future updates to the records available on the website.

I got caught out by the lack of images for some of the oldest records and all I got was the index details, viz:

Name ANDREW OHARA
Date of Event 1867
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Rathdown
Returns Year 1867
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 12
Returns Page No 817

Name ELIZABETH HARMON
Date of Event 1867
Group Registration ID N/R
SR District/Reg Area Rathdown
Returns Year 1867
Returns Quarter 1
Returns Volume No 12
Returns Page No 817

Thank you once again.