Find Ancestors

Bit of a long shot here.

I'm trying to find details of my great grandmother, Elizabeth Rose Rolls. I can't find any sign of a birth for her, she never married my great grandfather (so no marriage cert to check) and all the mentions I have found of her give conflicting information!! I have got quite a way back on all my other ancestor lines, so it's really annoying to reach a brick wall only three generations back!

What I know:
1901 Census - worked at hotel on 126-127 Kings Road, Brighton (between today's Granville Hotel and Hilton Hotel?), aged 20 (supposedly) (born Sudbury, Suffolk) - listed as Rose Rolls
1911 - living at 37/38 Kings Road (now the Barcelo Old Ship Hotel), Brighton, aged 33, cook (born Holborn, London?). Single, but using the Perks surname (my great grandfather, so this is definitely her).

Had three children:
Irene Rose Perks (known as Rose) - born 1911 in Sussex
Henry Frederick Perks (known as Fred) - born 1914 in Sussex
Dorothy Ivy Perks (my Nan) - born 1918 in Sussex

Died Jul-Sept 1933, Steyning, aged 49, 2b 317. Listed as Elizabeth Rose Rolls, which confirms never married.

I can't find a birth anywhere in the country and have tried variations of Elizabeth/Rose and spellings of Rolls. Census searches in the Sudbury and Holborn areas in 1891 came up with nothing.

If anyone can help, I'd be eternally grateful! Thanks!

Jodi

????

Births Dec 1887 (>99%)
Roll Elizabeth Rose Wandsworth 1d 776

Deaths Jun 1889 (>99%)
Roll Elizabeth Rose 1 Wandsworth 1d 378

Eliza Rosina Rolls
England and Wales Birth Registration Index
Name
Eliza Rosina Rolls
Event Type
Birth Registration
Registration Quarter
Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration Year
1884
Registration District
Croydon
County
Surrey
Event Place
Croydon, Surrey, England
Volume
2A
Page
261
Line Number
5

Elizabeth Rolls
England and Wales Census, 1891
Name
Elizabeth Rolls
Event Type
Census
Event Date
1891
County
London
Parish
Camberwell
Ecclesiastical Parish
ST ANTHOLIN
Registration District
Camberwell
Residence Note
Wivenhoe Road
Gender
Female
Age
7
Occupation
Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household
Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated)
1884
Birthplace
Surrey, England
Page Number
50
Registration Number
RG12
Piece/Folio
477/ 80
Household
Role
Sex
Age
Birthplace
Thomas Rolls
Head
M
48
London, England
Martha Rolls
Wife
F
47
Worcestershire, England
Elizabeth Rolls
Daughter
F
7
Surrey, England

Have you considered that she may have married young? Maybe she split from her husband but continued to use her married surname but declared herself as single as that is what she saw herself as.

As she was working in hotels maybe they would only provide accommodation for 'single' employees .........Just a thought.

Edit at 10.25pm. It could also explain why she never married your Great Grandfather...She was still legally married!

Chris

could it be she wasn't born surname rolls and was adopted

Thanks Malyon, I'd seen Eliza Rosina Rolls and wondered about her. That 1891 Census info looks very promising. I'll see if I can follow that track.

Chris in Sussex - yes, I did wonder about that, but a search of Free BMD didn't bring up any marriages of an Elizabeth Rose X to a Mr Rolls, so I'd kind of given up on that idea. The lack of marriage to my great grandfather could well be because he had been previously married and, as far as I can tell, never divorced. I may well revisit this to see if I stumble upon a different bit of info that I didn't notice before.

Thanks for your help so far everyone!

the eliza rosina could be her as there is no marriage or death in that name

Welcome to the boards, Jodi.

I don't think the Elizabeth Rolls in the 1891 census posted by Malyon is Eliza Rosina.

ROLLS, ELIZA ROSINA mms GUY
GRO Reference: 1884 D Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 204

There's no marriage between a Thomas Rolls and a Martha Guy.

There is this Rolls / Guy marriage:

Marriages Sep 1884 (>99%)
GUY Fanny Croydon 2a 397
Rolls Joseph Croydon 2a 397



This is the family in 1891:

Joseph Rolls
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Joseph Rolls
Age: 30
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Fanny Rolls
Gender: Male
Where born: Upps Norwood, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Penge
Ecclesiastical parish: Holy Trinity
Town: Penge
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 70
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 599
Folio: 4
Page Number: 2
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Rolls 30
Fanny Rolls 30
Martha R Rolls 6
Joseph H Rolls 5
Lizaia Rolls 3
Walter Rolls 9/12



I think Martha R is Eliza Rosina.

The sister "Lizaia" is, I think, Martha Elizabeth:

ROLLS, MARTHA ELIZABETH mms GUY
GRO Reference: 1888 M Quarter in CROYDON Volume 02A Page 249

and somehow the names have been mixed up on the census record.

The family in 1901 with correct ages and names:


Joseph Rolls
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Joseph Rolls
Age: 40
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Spouse: Fanny Rolls
Birth Place: W Norwood, Surrey, England
Civil Parish: Penge
Ecclesiastical parish: Christchurch
Town: Penge
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Croydon
Sub-registration district: Croydon
ED, institution, or vessel: 102
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 651
Folio: 106
Page Number: 38
Household schedule number: 224
Household Members:
Name Age
Joseph Rolls 40
Fanny Rolls 41
Eliza Rolls 16
Martha Rolls 13
Walter Rolls 11
Maud Rolls 9
Dorothy Rolls 5
Violet Rolls 1


So, Eliza Rosina's not your gr-grandmother, Jodi.

The Elizabeth in the 1891 census posted by Malyon could be this one - and she's not your gr-grandmother either;

ROLLS, ELIZA ELIZABETH mms SYMONDS
GRO Reference: 1883 S Quarter in CAMBERWELL Volume 01D Page 820


Parents' marriage ??

Marriages Dec 1872 (>99%)
ROLLS Thomas Lambeth 1d 716
Symonds Martha Lambeth 1d 716


and here's Martha with Elizabeth in 1901 (though Elizabeth's YOB is a few years out) :

Martha Rolls
in the 1901 England Census
Name: Martha Rolls
Age: 60
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Redditch, Worcestershire, England
Civil Parish: St George the Martyr
Ecclesiastical parish: St JudeCounty/Island: London
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Registration district: Southwark
Sub-registration district: London Road
ED, institution, or vessel: 14
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 370
Folio: 9
Page Number: 10
Household schedule number: 94
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Rolls 60
Elizabeth E Rolls 19


Again in 1911, with Elizabeth's YOB correct:


Martha Rolls
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Martha Rolls
Age in 1911: 70
Estimated birth year: abt 1841
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Redditch
Civil Parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street address: 10 Gilbert Road, Kennington S E
Marital Status: Widowed
Occupation: NONE
Registration district: Lambeth
Registration District Number: 25
Sub-registration district: Kennington
ED, institution, or vessel: 1
Piece: 1975
Household Members:
Name Age
Martha Rolls 70
Elizabeth Rolls 27

"she never married my great grandfather (so no marriage cert to check")

Is there a name for him (Mr. Perks) or have I missed it?...

Chris :)

Wild speculation while we're waiting for Jodi to reply to Chris's query:


DELETED - PROVED WRONG GUESS BY JODI'S REPLY BELOW.

Actually , this one looks more likely - married but living alone. Also, the son's middle name was Frederick. (But still wild speculation):


Frederick Perks
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Frederick Perks
Age in 1911: 38
Estimated birth year: abt 1873
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Kilburn, London, England
Civil Parish: Hove
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England
Street address: 9 Kendal Road Hove Sussex
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Accountant Clerk
Registration district: Steyning
Registration District Number: 80
Sub-registration district: Hove
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Household schedule number: 169
Piece: 5197
Household Members:
Name Age
Frederick Perks 38

Thanks guys for all this effort! Great grandfather was Alexander George Gordon Lennox Perks b 1868 and married to Jane Silvey in Kensington 1892. Alexander was the illegitimate son of George Charles Gordon Lennox (son of the 5th Duke of Richmond). He was one of three children between George Lennox and Elizabeth Perks.

Alexander was living in Roundhill Crescent in Brighton in 1901, newspaper clerk. Neither 'wife' with him - Elizabeth probably living/working in hotel as mentioned above. Couldn't find him on 1911 census but first daughter with Elizabeth Rolls born later that year (Irene Rose) followed by Henry Frederick in 1914 and Dorothy Ivy (my nan) in 1918.

Hope that helps.

That Fred Perks in 1911 could be him, Argyll Gran - my Nan said he was known as Fred (she listed him as that on her marriage cert).

This branch of the family is a nightmare for not sticking with their given names!!

Middlesex, London, Old Bailey Court records 1674-1913 Transcription

Learn more
Print transcription
First name(s) Alexander
Last name Perks
Sex Male
Year 1888
Event date 19 Mar 1888
Role Witness
Image URL http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/images.jsp?doc=188803190055
Trial ID t18880319-406
Source ID t18880319-name-169
Place London
County Middlesex
Country England
Record set Middlesex, London, Old Bailey Court Records 1674-1913
Category Institutions & organisations
Subcategory Courts & Legal
Collections from England, Great Britain

clerkin the postal department of the daily telegraph

did he marry again
ALEXANDER G C
Last name PERKS
Marriage quarter 1
Marriage year 1919
Registration month -
MarriageFinder™ ALEXANDER G C PERKS married
Dorothy M Simmonds
Spouse's last name Simmonds
District Strood
District number -
County Kent
Country England
Volume 2A
Page 1359

I think the above is son of Alexander 1868 and Jane Silvey
Alexander G C perks born Oct 1893 V1a P 114

Railway employment records has Alexander G C Perks
born 15/10/1893 in 10/10/1912 he was a Cleaner at Battersea Station.

Maryb.

Thanks Maddie and Mary - yes that is the son of his first marriage.