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Hi
I have been researching my GGG Grandfather for some time. I am stuck on finding his birth records. He states on all census records that he was born in East Dereham, Norfolk c1803. I have his marriage certificate where he was married to Susan Gosling in nearby North Elmham in 1823. No parents are recorded on the M Cert.
Nowhere can I find a record of his birth. I have visited the archives in Norwich but could not find him, or any other Rayner, in East Dereham. It is not a common name in the area. The closest I can find is a Robert Rayner born in nearby Gressenhall (where there is a workhouse) but it is for 1809 which would make him just 13 when he married Susan. There are one or two others. One in West Tofts, Norfolk but that Robert married a different woman .
There is another birth in Dicklburgh, Norfolk for the right date, but I thought it a bit too far, geographically, to be a likely match though I am prepared to accept it if others more knowledgeable than I think it feasible? It is about 33 miles from East Dereham. I have looked at the route between the two towns and it could pass through a couple of towns in Norfolk that have connections to the Rayner name.
Could he have been born in Dickleburgh and grew up believing he was born in East Dereham?

I haven't checked on the geography yet, so these may be way out. *****
And I expect you've found and discounted them already, as you obviously know a lot about Norfolk - but just in case:


Robert Rayner
England, Norfolk Bishop's Transcripts
Name Robert Rayner
Event Type Christening
Event Date 05 Sep 1804
Event Place Hethersett, Norfolk, England
Gender Male
Father's Name Jacob Rayner
Mother's Name Elizabeth Thurston




Robert Rayner
England, Norfolk, Parish Registers (County Record Office)
Name Robert Rayner
Event Type Christening
Event Date 10 Dec 1803
Event Place South Walsham St Mary, Norfolk, England
Gender Male
Father's Name William Rayner
Mother's Name Mary Caston Rayner

***** EDIT:
Have now looked at the map.
Hethersett seems to be about 10 miles from East Dereham as the crow flies - further by road.
South Walsham's a lot further away.

the 1841 census shows he has children named as robert and mary amongst others, same names as parents in dickllburgh baptism. May be a possibilty

1851 says born in north elham
Name: Robert Baynes
[Robert Rayner]
Age: 47
Estimated birth year: abt 1804
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Susan Baynes
Gender: Male
Where born: North Elmham, Norfolk, England
Civil Parish: North Elmham
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England
Registration district: Mitford
Sub-registration district: Dereham
ED, institution, or vessel: 5b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 85
Piece: 1825
Folio: 538
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
Robert Baynes 47
Susan Baynes 45
Robert Baynes 23
Charles Baynes 21
Susan Baynes 17
Richard Baynes 10
George Baynes 8
Joseph Baynes 6

Just in case it helps link things up - some of the children's baptisms show middle names for them which could possibly be surnames of ancestors?


North Elmham St Mary
Baptism
402 04/03/1824 Ann Horn RAYNER Robert RAYNER Wheelwright Susanna
482 03/01/1826 William Barber RAYNER Robert RAYNER Wheelwright Susanna
557 30/01/1828 Robert RAYNER Robert RAYNER Wheelwright Susanna
631 20/12/1829 Charles Gosling RAYNER Robert RAYNER Wheelwright Susanna

Dea x

????
Name: Robert Rayner
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 23 Feb 1800
Marriage Place: Dickleburgh, Norfolk, England
Spouse: Mary Winkfield
FHL Film Number: 1951633
Reference ID: item 2 p 47

Name: Robert Rayner
Gender: Male
Marriage Date: 24 Feb 1800
Marriage Place: South Elmham-St. James, Suffolk, England
Spouse: Mary Wingfield
FHL Film Number: 991974
Reference ID: item 29

I don't know if the witnesses at the marriage might be of any assistance?

Field Value
County Norfolk
Place (link for place information) North Elmham
Church name St Mary the Virgin
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 97
Marriage date 9 Oct 1823
Groom forename Robert
Groom surname RAYNER
Groom condition bachelor
Bride forename Susan
Bride surname GOSLING
Bride condition spinster
Witness John BONE
Witness John GOSHAWK
Register note She Makes Her Mark
Transcriber notes

Dea x

Witness ???


John Goshawk
England, Norfolk Bishop's Transcripts
Name John Goshawk
Event Type Burial
Event Date 23 Dec 1833
Event Place North Elmham, Norfolk, England
Gender Male
Age 80
Birth Year (Estimated) 1753

EDIT:
Well, actually, there were a few John Goshawks in North Elmham.
Another one was buried in 1848.

The name appears in North Elmham on Norfolk Register of Electors from 1840's to 1915 (per FS) .

The John Goshawk who died in 1848 looks like the one aged 30 on census and his occupation looks very much like 'registrar' so I think we can forget any family connection there?

Dea x

Thank you all so much!
The 1851 census is the only one where he deviates from "East Dereham" as his birth place. It does make one wonder if he really knew his birth place though?

I have been down the road of his children's middle names and can not find any help there.
I have all the census records and they have not been any help.
Have also looked into the witnesses at the wedding and they just confirm that he lived in North Elmham which I already knew. If you are looking for more census records he moves to Brighton Sussex with his whole family. No clues, that I can see, on those records either. His death is recorded in Brighton 1881. No clues there either.

I like the idea that the Dickleburgh baptism shows that his parents names are replicated in his children. I wonder if that is his baptism. Several other people have accepted it but they do not live, as I do, in Norfolk.

I have been to East Dereham to look in the graveyard and there are no Rayners there on the gravestones that are readable. So where are his parents?

They seem the type of family that move around a lot. Robert was a journeyman wheelwright. There are one or two Rayners dotted around Norfolk. The name is common up North so he could be born up there too?

It has just occurred to me that he moved a long way to Brighton with all his family. I have believed this to be because he was a Wheelwright and that work was more plentiful near the main London to Brighton road?

Could it be that he had family connections from there?

Was it common in those days to move so far from your birthplace?

looking at igi, the two marraiges i posted above seem to be the same people


Mary Wingfield
mentioned in the record of Robert Rayner
Name Mary Wingfield
gender Female
Husband Robert Rayner
Son Robert Rayner
Other information in the record of Robert Rayner
from England Births and Christenings
Name Robert Rayner
Residence Place Norfolk, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 23 Oct 1803
Christening Date (Original) 23 Oct 1803
Christening Place Dickleburgh, Norfolk, England
Father's Name Robert Rayner
Mother's Name Mary Wingfield


Mary Wingfield
mentioned in the record of William Rayner
Name Mary Wingfield
gender Female
Husband Robert Rayner
Son William Rayner
Other information in the record of William Rayner
from England Births and Christenings
Name William Rayner
Residence Place Norfolk, England
Gender Male
Christening Date 14 Jun 1801
Christening Date (Original) 14 Jun 1801
Christening Place Dickleburgh, Norfolk, England
Father's Name Robert Rayner
Mother's Name Mary Wingfield

Yes, I think it was common to move. My ggg grandfather was consistent through all the census that his place of birth was Cattirick (North Yorks) in c1796, but he married and lived in Cartmel, Lancashire (now Cumbria). There was no obvious family living in the area, despite extensive research at the local archives.

Like you I have struggled to find his christening - there were 2 in Catterick around the time, but no way of knowing which one. And don't forget, not all children were christened - so your Robert may be one of them - and some were only christened later in life (sometimes the church required it to marry them).

Thanks guys.

I must say the Dickleburgh Christening is looking more and more like him. One of his children is called William, perhaps after his brother?

Is DNA any help in these cases?