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Can anyone help?
My MIL was born in 1934 to Partick and Maggie Goodwin (Troop).They were married J/F/M 1925 in West Derby Liverpool. Now she says she had a brother called Ashley was was 13 when he died but she cant remember him. Ive tried looking Ashley up but cant find a birth or death for him. Now she thinks her dad Patrick was married before so I looked him up and found a married for Partick to a Dorothy Best J/A/S 1918 in West Derby. But as usual cant find a death for Dorothy Im assuming she died for Partrick to marry in 1925...Can anyone help me.

Robert Ashely Troop.....Dorothy Goodwin....West Derby Liverpool. Thanks x

??

Deaths Mar 1923 (>99%)
GOODWIN Dorothy J 23 W.Derby 8b 595


Might be this birth

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
Best Dorothy Jane Toxteth Park 8b 239

Andy

Hi Elaine

Not seeing any births or deaths for an Ashley/Ashleigh Goodwin........but there are these two births......


Births Dec 1921 (>99%)
GOODWIN Winifred Best W.Derby 8b 1197


Births Jun 1923 (>99%)
Goodwin Joan D Best W.Derby 8b 1094

Patrick Goodwin in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1916-2005
Name: Patrick Goodwin
Date of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar 1925
Registration district: West Derby
Inferred County: Lancashire
Spouse: Margaret F Troop
Volume Number: 8b
Page Number: 676

What are the birth dates of Patrick and Margaret?

Perhaps we can find them on the 1939 Register.

Found them....

Patrick Goodwin on the 1939 Register

Goodwin Household (4 People) 21 Killarney Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, England Married (ARP Warden)

Patrick Goodwin 15 Sep 1895 Furrier
Margaret Goodwin 10 Nov 1900 Unpaid Domestic Duties Married
(One Closed Record)
Patrick Goodwin 07 Jul 1929 School Age

Births Sep 1929 (>99%)
Goodwin Patrick Troop W. Derby 8b 1080

Your MIL is probably the "Closed Record"

Looks like both children of first marriage died very young. How very sad.

Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page
Deaths Mar 1922 (>99%)
Goodwin Winifred 0 W.Derby 8b 931

Deaths Dec 1923 (>99%)
GOODWIN Joan D 0 W.Derby 8b 656

Andy

Oh dear.....

Winifred Goodwin in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988
Name: Winifred Goodwin.......10 Fernleigh Road
Birth Year: abt 1921
Age: 4/12
Death Year: abt 1922
Burial Date: 4 Feb 1922
Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery, Lancashire, England


Joan Dorothy Goodwin in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988
Name: Joan Dorothy Goodwin......179 Prescot Road
Birth Year: abt 1918
Age: 5
Death Year: abt 1923
Burial Date: 21 Dec 1923
Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery, Lancashire, England

Dorothy Jane Goodwin in the Liverpool, England, Catholic Burials, 1813-1988
Name: Dorothy Jane Goodwin...147 Mill Road
Birth Year: abt 1900
Age: 23
Death Year: abt 1923
Burial Date: 15 Mar 1923
Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery, Lancashire, England


BEST, DOROTHY JANE MMN HAMBLETON
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 239

Parents marriage.....

Marriages Jun 1893 (>99%)
Best Edmund Maurice W. Derby 8b 811
Hambleton Mary Ann W. Derby 8b 811


Dorothy Jane Best in the Liverpool, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Dorothy Jane Best
Age: 0
Birth Date: 9 May 1899
Baptism Date: 4 Feb 1900
Baptism Place: Kensington, Christ Church, Lancashire, England
Father: Edmond Manrice Best....(Plumber) 55 Gilead Street
Mother: Mary Ann Best

1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
55, Gilead Street, West Derby, Lancashire, England

Mary A Best Head Widow Female 32 1869 Plain Sewer Butterton, Derbyshire, England
William M Best Son - Male 6 1895 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Dorothy J Best Daughter - Female 1 1900 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England


Deaths Jun 1900 (>99%)
Best Edmund Maurice 32 W. Derby 8b 372

I can't spot Dorothy on the 1911 census but, if it is of any interest to you, her Mother re-married in 1902

Marriages Sep 1902 (>99%)
Best Mary Ann Stoke T. 6b 280
JONES David Lyon D Stoke T. 6b 280

Name: Dorothy Jane Goodwin
Birth Year: abt 1900
Age: 23
Death Year: abt 1923
Burial Date: 15 Mar 1923
Parish: Yew Tree Cemetery, Lancashire, England

147 Mill Road.

Andy

But thers still no births coming up for an Ashley Goodwin sorry

Can MIL give any other details ,maybe he wasn't a brother but another family member

Does your MIL think Ashley died before or after she was born?

Can't see any death of an Ashley [any surname] dying aged 13 in Lancashire.

THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR ALL YOUR HELP .At the moment MIL is in hospital shes got cancer and she just started talking about Ashley "her" brother who died when he was 13 but she couldnt remember him. She also said her mam lost 2 little girls one with she thinks whooping cough she died in her arms. Shes never mentioned any of this before so thought id see what I could find for her. As shes suddenly mentioned them if you know what I mean. xx

Could Ashley have been a middle name?

This death is indexed with the surname Goodwin and Troop.

Deaths Jun 1935 (>99%)
Troop Robert A 14 Liverpool N. 8b 616
Goodwin Robert A 14 Liverpool N. 8b 616


Births Sep 1920 (>99%)
Troop Robert A Troop W. Derby 8b 1302


So that would pretty well verify what your MIL has said. The brother was her half brother (her mother's illegitimate son) and the girls would be her father's daughters by his first wife (her half sisters).

Ah! Perhaps her Mum lost two little girls too!

Births Mar 1928 (>99%)
Goodwin Joan Troop W.Derby 8b 1142

Deaths Dec 1928 (>99%)
Goodwin Joan 0 W.Derby 8b 619


Births Sep 1929 (>99%)
Goodwin Patrick Troop W. Derby 8b 1080


Births Sep 1931 (>99%)
Goodwin Margaret J Troop W.Derby 8b 1080


Maybe? Not seeing a birth reg for this one so maybe death registered using middle name.

Deaths Sep 1932 (>99%)
Goodwin Jean M 0 W Derby 8b 509

Using the new-GRO index - gotten via:
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ after a free sign up

Name: Age at Death (in years):
GOODWIN, JOAN 8 Order
GRO Reference: 1928 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 619

GOODWIN, JEAN MARGARET 11 Order
GRO Reference: 1932 S Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 509

TROOP, ROBERT ASHLEY 14 Order
GRO Reference: 1935 J Quarter in LIVERPOOL NORTH Volume 08B Page 616

Although the header says Age in years, actually it's age in months for deaths of kids under 2 y.o.


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
GOODWIN, PATRICK FLOOD Order
GRO Reference: 1895 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 594

BEST, DOROTHY JANE HAMBLETON Order
GRO Reference: 1899 J Quarter in TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 239

TROOP, MAGGIE FRANCES ROSS Order
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in WEST DERBY Volume 08B Page 590

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
ROSS, ANNIE MCKENZIE HIGGINS Order
GRO Reference: 1877 M Quarter in WEST DERBY AND TOXTETH PARK Volume 08B Page 404

ROSS, WILLIAM JOHN HIGGINS Order
GRO Reference: 1879 S Quarter in LIVERPOOL Volume 08B Page 43



Using http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/ and http://www.staffordshirebmd.org.uk/

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1891[q2]
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GOODWIN George FLOOD Catherine Liverpool, Our Lady & St. Nicholas & St. Anne Liverpool 2053LP/78/429

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1893
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BEST Edmund M HAMBLETON Mary A West Derby, St. Philip Liverpool 2024WD/1/28

Staffordshire Marriage indexes for the years: 1902
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
BEST Mary Ann JONES David Lyon Dugarde Etruria, St Matthew Stoke-On-Trent 9/06/162.

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1900
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
TROOP John ROSS Annie M West Derby, St. Philip Liverpool 2024WD/1/318

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1918
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GOODWIN Patrick BEST Dorothy West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/347/198

Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1925
Surname Forename(s) Surname Forename(s) Church / Register Office Registers At Reference
GOODWIN Patrick TROOP Margaret F West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/428/64

Pre-1898, only the established church, jews, quakers and registrars were authorized to keep official marr rego's, so if a non-conformist church marr took place, a registrar would have to attend with his official marr rego for the couple (and witnesses) to sign to complete the marr ceremony.
The law was changed in 1898, and non-conformists could apply to be authorized to keep official marr rego's.
However, the RCs chose not to apply until 1980-ish (1970-ish in some parts of the North).



1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9K5-HGZ
George Goodwin Head M 32 Liverpool, Lancashire TINSMITH
Catherine Goodwin Wife F 31 Liverpool, Lancashire
George Goodwin Son M 6 Liverpool, Lancashire
Patrick Goodwin Son M 5 Liverpool, Lancashire

1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LM-5DC
Mary A Best Head F 32 Butterton, Derbyshire PLAIN SEWER
William M Best Son M 6 Liverpool, Lancashire
Dorothy J Best Daughter F 1 Liverpool, Lancashire

1901 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9LN-CLP
William J Ross Head M 58 Scotland VARNISH MAKER
Mary Ross Wife F 57 Scotland
Annie Troop Daughter F 24 Liverpool, Lancashire
Margaret Troop Grand Child F 0 Liverpool, Lancashire

1881 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27L-6YG8
William J Ross Head M 36 Scotland Dock Porter
Mary Ross Wife F 37 Scotland
Margaret Ross Daughter F 11 Scotland
Jessie Ross Daughter F 9 Scotland
Annie Ross Daughter F 5 Lpool, Lancashire, England
William J Ross Son M 1 Lpool, Lancashire, England



https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4F-69C
Name Margaret Ross
Gender Female
Birth Date 28 Mar 1870
Birthplace MIDDLE OR NEW PARISH,GREENOCK,RENFREW,SCOTLAND
Father's Name William John Ross
Mother's Name Mary Higgins
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C11564-1
System Origin Scotland-ODM

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQZL-67G
Name Jessie Ross
Gender Female
Birth Date 19 Jan 1872
Birthplace MIDDLE-EAST-WEST PARISHES,GREENOCK,RENFREW,SCOTLAND
Father's Name William John Ross
Mother's Name Mary Higgins
Indexing Project (Batch) Number C11564-1
System Origin Scotland-ODM

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XYQQ-24Z
Name William John Ross
Spouse's Name Mary Higgins
Event Date 16 Jul 1869
Event Place Inverkip,Renfrew,Scotland
Indexing Project (Batch) Number M11567-1
System Origin Scotland-ODM

You can get 1890s maps showing parishes of each Scottish county via:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/
in particular:
http://www.electricscotland.com/history/gazetteer/images/renfrew_map.jpg

We see Inverkip parish is west of, and adjacent to, Greenock parish.

SP sells older images of BMD registers, Old Patish Registers (for pre-1855), and censuses.
If you're careful, you can get 5 images for 7 quid.
https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/

A Scottish 1869 marr will show both parents (with maiden surnames) for the wedded couple.

Before I start thanks again everyone for your help. I went to see my MIL in hospital shes a bit better. So I said Id been on here to try and find Ashleigh and how I had looked and found nothing lol. I then said some people had found a Robert Ashleigh Troop born around the right time and sadly died very young. See it was the Troop name that totally threw me. All I kept thinking was it cant be right surly his surname would have been Goodwin Maggies married name ( how wrong was I lol) . Anyway I said ...Margieee I dont suppose little nan (Maggie) could have had a baby at some time lol. She said well she never mentioned it but Margie remembers her telling her about Ashleigh who died. Robert died in A/M/J 1934 Margie was born the following March 1935. So Ive ordered Roberts birth cert paid the extra to get it in a couple of days lol.It is going to be so weird if its all true about Robert because little Nan was one of those people who looked like butter wouldnt melt but she did like to cheat at cards when playing with her grand kids lol...I will let you know what the certificate says when it arrives .....If they only knew all those years ago that their deepest darkest secrets could be found at the touch of a button lol. ;-)

Welll the birth certificates come and Robert Ashley Troop was born 26th July 1920 to little nan. She registered the birth and there is no fathers name registered.
She was living in the house she lived in all her life. A bit about her her dad John Troop did a runner months after her birth in 1900. Her mother died in 1911 and Little Nan was put in an orphange by her mothers parents. From what she said over the years she didnt have a very good time. So looking at Roberts birth she kept him . That must have been hard in those years. It says on his certificate she was a packer what looks like magarine factory???She was a cracking little woman about 5 foot tall but loved her family and would do anythng for them . Now Im in tears lol...Elaine xx