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So very grateful for all your help.

Many many thanks.

I have been a bit poorly so forgive me for not thanking you all sooner

Jenny

Having found the Caroline who was sent to Canada, I did then try to find a return passage to the UK, but couldn't see anything on ancestry.

(well, not sure on anything!)

Chris :)

If Annie the witness, was her her sister who married 1917, Harry Wynn, 1939 they are at Beach Road, Birmingham, seeing Richard Bunn at Highbury Road 1939, checked on google maps, as below...

https://tinyurl.com/yd85uovx

(Jenny added below on other 'Thread', in case Annie was one of those sisters)

My granny died when my mother was about 7 years old. Wondering now if she weas sent abroad but returned at a later date - my grandad was very ill and wouldn't have been able to cope. I have been told that my grandmothers sisters may have looked after her for some time (no details though).

It's turned into a very confusing search!

Are there 2 George Hollyoak, if he had son Alfred 1869 died 1938 with Maria would he then have another Alfred 1888 with Mary Ann Fitter nee Bratt!! and also the problem with the 1891 census George with Carrie 1887 and also 1891 Mary Ann with daughter Caroline 1883.

Seems a bit strange to me.

Maryb.

Saw above this morning...

Chris :)

All Birmingham, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 (Ancestry)

Daniel Holyoak abt 1873
16 Nov 1895
Hockley, St Saviour
George,
Harriet
Spouse Harriet Cunliffe
(his Father George, Deceased, occ. Watch hand maker)

I've got lost, lol...

Chris :)

(so below from other 'Thread')

Catherine Report 3 Jan 2016 22:02

Father is George

Name: Caroline Holyoake
Gender: Female
Birth Year: abt 1883
Occupation:- Polisher
Marriage Date: 24 Apr 1910
Marriage Age: 27
Marriage Place: Birmingham, St George, Warwickshire, England
Spouse: Richard Buan
Spouse Gender: Male
Spouse Marriage Age: 22
xxxx Father: George Holyoake
Occupation:- Jeweller (deceased)
Spouse's Father: James Buan
Reference Number: DRO 9
Archive Roll: 609

Witness:- Annie Holyoake (see 1891 census below) Edits, (Residence at Time for both, 1 Temple Place, Hampton Street)


(I then added below earlier, are these the two sisters, Sylvia posted for 'Home Children'?)


Birmingham, England, Church of England Baptisms, 1813-1912 (Ancestry)

(below pair, George occ. Jeweller. Abode, 21 Forge Street)

Alfred Hollyoake
21 Aug 1897 Birmingham, St Jude
George,
Mary Ann


Annie Hollyoake
21 Aug 1897 Birmingham, St Jude
George,
Mary Ann

(for them, same as Caroline (Mother Maiden Name) Bratt posted earlier)

Birth
HOLYOAK, ANNIE (BRATT)
GRO Reference: 1885 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 76


Birth
HOLYOAKE, ALFRED (BRATT)
GRO Reference: 1888 J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 73


Birmingham, England, Church of England Marriages and Banns, 1754-1937 (Ancestry)

Annie Holyoak abt 1891
10 Feb 1917 Birmingham, St Mary
Spouse Harry Wynn
(her Father, George (Deceased. Diamond Setter. Residence for her, Shaftesbury House, St. Mary's Row)


Births Dec 1917 (>99%)
-----------------------------------------------------
Wynn Eva A Holyoaks Kings N. 6d 89


Edits (notes that address for Annie, 1917 Marriage, from google search)

http://www.formerchildrenshomes.org.uk/birmingham_1929.html

(Working Girls’ Hostel, Shaftesbury House, 3, 4 and 5 St Mary’s Row)


Edits

https://bifhsgo.ca/cstm_homeChildren.php?page=130&sortCol=snd&srch=

(above, also reference for Canada)


Deaths Sep 1966 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------
WYNN ANNIE 80 BIRMINGHAM 9C 315


Deaths Mar 1978 (>99%)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WYNN HARRY 25JE1891 BIRMINGHAM 32 1365

Deaths Mar 1881 (>99%)
HOLYOAK Maria 40 Birmingham 6d 96

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Edward Street Court, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Holyoak Head - Male 33 1838 - Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Maria Holyoak Wife - Female 31 1840 - Warwickshire, England
Transcription
George Holyoak Son - Male 10 1861 - Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Alfred Holyoak Son - Male 2 1869 - Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Harry Holyoak Son - Male 0 1871 - Warwickshire, England


george is a watch hand maker

1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
264, Bridge St W, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Holyoak Head Widower Male 43 1838 Watch Hand Maker Warwick, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
George C Holyoak Son Single Male 20 1861 Modle Steam Engine Maker Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Alfred W Holyoak Son Single Male 12 1869 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Harry Holyoak Son Single Male 10 1871 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Arthur E Holyoak Son Single Male 5 1876 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Nellie E Holyoak Daughter Single Female 0 1881 - Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Daniel Holyoak Son Single Male 8 1873 Scholar Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Selina Holyoak Grand Mother Widow Female 63 1818 - Bedford, Bedfordshire, England
Transcription
William H Holyoak Brother Single Male 23 1858 (Artzn) Engraver Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

I were looking at the above one 1891 but Caroline appears as Caroline Fitter with mum Mary Ann Fitter in 1891 also.Confusing.

Maryb.

????

could carrie be caroline age out a bit


1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hospital Street, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England

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Print transcription View image
Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
George Holyoak Head Married Male 49 1842 Watch Hand Maker Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Selina Holyoak Mother Widow Female 73 1818 House Work Bedfordshire, England
Transcription
Daniel Holyoak Son Single Male 19 1872 Gem Setter Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Arthur Holyoak Son - Male 15 1876 Stamper Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Nellie Holyoak Daughter - Female 11 1880 Scholar Warwickshire, England
Transcription
Carrie Holyoak Daughter - Female 4 1887 - Warwickshire, England xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

So Joseph is on the 1901 census (already posted above) with his grandmother Mary Ann Fitter. Amelia is there too but listed as Alma.

Possible siblings for Amelia?

Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: Order:
BRATT, JOSEPH ALFRED FITTER Order
GRO Reference: 1900 D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 71 Order
BRATT, WILLIAM JOHN FITTER Order
GRO Reference: 1899 S Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 45 Order

Not seeing Amelia in 1901 but perhaps her mother died?


First name(s) MARY ANN
Last name BRATT
Gender Female
Birth day -
Birth month -
Birth year 1873
Age 27
Death quarter 4
Death year 1900
District Birmingham
County Warwickshire
Volume 6D
Page 30
Country England
Record set England & Wales Deaths 1837-2007
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Civil Deaths & Burials
Collections from Great Britain, England
© Findmypast

Birth registration of the niece with her in 1911


Name: Mother's Maiden Surname:
BRATT, AMELIA MARIA FITTER
GRO Reference: 1898 M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM Volume 06D Page 86 Order

1871:

Name: Mary Ann
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Event Place: Birmingham, Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
District:
Enumeration District: 24
Gender: Female
Age: 22
Marital Status: Married
Occupation:
Relationship to Head of Household: Wife
Birth Year (Estimated): 1849
Birthplace: Bradley, Staffordshire
Household ID: 93
Entry Number: 18
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/3101/0026
GS Film Number: 000839571
Digital Folder Number: 004405185
Image Number: 00333


Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Fitter Head M 37 Birmingham
Mary Ann Wife F 22 Bradley, Staffordshire


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1881:

Name: Mary Fitter
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1881
Event Place: Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Registration District: Birmingham
Residence Note: Suffolk St
Gender: Female
Age: 32
Marital Status (Original): Widow
Occupation: Charwoman ((Carewoman))
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Institution:
Birth Date:
Birth Year:
Birth Year (Estimated): 1849
Birthplace: Bradley, Staffordshire, England
Book Number:
Page Number: 21
Household ID: 2799483
Line Number: 16
Registration Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 2977/76
Affiliate Record Type: Household
GS Film Number: 101774842
Digital Folder Number: 101774842
Image Number: 00683


Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Mary Fitter Head F 32 Bradley, Staffordshire, England
Ann Fitter Daughter F 9 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
Florance Fitter Daughter F 8 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
William Fitter Son M 4 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
John Fitter Son M 0 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England


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1891:

Name: Caroline Fitter
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1891
County: Warwickshire
Parish: Birmingham
Ecclesiastical Parish: ST JUDE
Sub-District:
Registration District: Birmingham
Residence Note: Inge Street
Gender: Female
Age: 7
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Scholar
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated): 1884
Birthplace: Warwickshire, England
Schedule Type:
Page:
Page Number: 28
Line Number: 7
Registration Number: RG12
Piece/Folio: 2375/ 36


Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Mary A Fitter Head F 42 Staffordshire, England
Mary A Fitter Daughter F 19 Warwickshire, England
Florence Fitter Daughter F 15 Warwickshire, England
Amy Fitter Daughter F 16 Birmingham, Warwickshire, England
William Fitter Son M 14 Warwickshire, England
John J Fitter Son M 11 Warwickshire, England
Caroline Fitter Daughter F 7 Warwickshire, England
Annie Fitter Daughter F 5 Warwickshire, England



Rose

Marriages Mar 1871
Bratt Mary Ann King's N. 6c 512
Fitter William King's N. 6c 512

Rose