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Hello All
Maddie was correct when she said that Georgina was perhaps the daughter of William and Dorothea Rowland born 1847 in Pimlico.
I received her marriage certificate today which confirmed the info.A witness to the marriage was Albert Fletcher,a brother of Dorothea.
Thanks again
Regards
Wendy

Hello Everyone
William was alive and kicking in 1909 when he married Elizabeth (Bessie ) V McCall.His parents are mentioned by name plus his place of birth,Woodford Essex.
In 1910 Elizabeth McCall said she was a widow so either it was a very short lived marriage or perhaps William had walked away or he could have died.
The William married to Rachel Harper and the widowed William are not my William Oakley born in Woodford in 1850.Willian followed his brother James to Ontario in 1872.
Regards
Wendy

It's getting very confusing, isn't it?
The 1880 year of immigration could be the year that he immigrated to USA from Canada but I can't find a record of it.

Willm Oakley
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Willm Oakley
Age: 7 Mo
Estimated birth year: abt 1850
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Oakley
Mother's name: Martha Oakley
Gender: Male
Where born: Woodford, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Woodford
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
Disability:
View image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Leyton
ED, institution, or vessel: 2b
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 80
Piece: 1769
Folio: 407
Page Number: 23
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Oakley 29
Martha Oakley 29
John Oakley 3
Martha Oakley 2
Willm Oakley 7 Mo
Hannah Hawkins 11 - servant (I think that should be "sister" though it's hard to decipher)



William Oakley
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Oakley
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: 1850
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Oakley
Mother's name: Martha Oakley
Gender: Male
Where born: Woodford, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Woodford
Ecclesiastical parish: St Paul
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Street address:
Occupation:
Condition as to marriage:
View image
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 136
Piece: 1062
Folio: 70
Page Number: 27
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Oakley 39
Martha Oakley 39
John Oakley 13
Martha Oakley 12
William Oakley 11
Jane Oakley 10
Frank Oakley 6
Elisa Oakley 4
Benjamin Oakley 2
John Hawkins 18 - brother (presumably Martha's brother)




William Oakley
in the 1871 England Census
Name: William Oakley
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1851
Relation: Son
Father's name: Henry Oakley
Mother's name: Martha Oakley
Gender: Male
Where born: Woodford, Essex, England
Civil Parish: Woodford
Ecclesiastical parish: Woodford Bridge St Paul
Town: Woodford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Walthamstow
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Household schedule number: 247
Piece: 1637
Folio: 158
Page Number: 54
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry Oakley 48
Martha Oakley 49
William Oakley 20
Frank Oakley 16
Eliza J Oakley 14
Benjamin S Oakley 12
Edward A Oakley 7
Sarah Ann Oakley 5
Alfred Shepherd 20 - lodger
Sarah Hawkins 36 - visitor

Going back to the "died at sea" possibility for William and Georgina - son Henry James was born 1876, but was living with another family in 1885, so I assume they died (not necessarily at sea) between 1876 and 1885.



If John Henry Oakley and Martha Hawkins were indeed the parents of "your" William, this looks like his birth:


OAKELEY, WILLIAM mms HAWKINS
GRO Reference: 1850 D Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 12 Page 305

West Ham reg district includes Woodford.

There are just too many William Oakleys in the records!


William Oakley
in the Michigan, Marriage Records, 1867-1952
Name: William Oakley
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birth Year: abt 1850
Birth Place: England
Marriage Date: 27 Nov 1880
Marriage Place: Calumet, Houghton, Michigan, USA
Age: 30
Residence Place: Calumet
Spouse: Rachel Harper
Record Number: 1735
Film: 19
Film Description: 1880 Alcona - Manistee

The daughter Lillian from the 1930 census also has mother Rachael - (mms Harper - presumably the same person as Eunice Harper on Albert's marriage record):


Lillian E . Lamartine
in the Montana, County Marriages, 1865-1950
Name: Lillian E . Lamartine
[Lillian E . Oakley]
Gender: Female
Race: White
Marital Status: Single
Age: 33
Birth Date: 1887
Birth Place: Cromwell, Minnesota
Marriage Date: 28 Nov 1917
Marriage Place: Livingston, Park, Montana
Father: William Oakley
Mother: Rachael Harper
Spouse: Michael Garr
FHL Film Number: 1940412


Lillian E. Oakley
in the Montana, County Marriages, 1865-1950
Name: Lillian E. Oakley
Gender: Female
Race: White
Marital Status: Single
Age: 29
Birth Date: 1885
Birth Place: Cromwell, Minnesota
Marriage Date: 24 Dec 1901
Marriage Place: Livingston, Park, Montana
Father: William Oakley
Mother: Rachael Harper
Spouse: Sidney W. Lamartine
FHL Film Number: 1940410

Albert Henry Oakley
in the U.S., Find A Grave Index, 1600s-Current
Name: Albert Henry Oakley
Birth Date: 1884
Birth Place: Brainerd, Crow Wing County, Minnesota, United States of America
Death Date: 1 Apr 1956
Death Place: Cascade County, Montana, United States of America
Cemetery: Mountain View Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Livingston, Park County, Montana, United States of America
Has Bio?: N
Spouse: Ethel Oakley
Children: Francis Marion Oakley




But here he has yet another different mother:


Albert H Oakly
in the Minnesota, Territorial and State Censuses, 1849-1905
Name: Albert H Oakly
Age: 6 Months
Census Date: 1 May 1885
County: Crow Wing
Locality: Brainerd
Birth Location: Minnesota
Gender: Male
Estimated birth year: abt 1884
Race: White
LINE: 18
Roll: MNSC_23

Parents William (age 25, England) and RACHEL (24, Canada).
And a sister: Mary H Oakly, 3, Minnesota..

William in 1920 census isn't the right one, unless he'd remarried, because here's the son Albert's marriage:


Albert H Oakley
in the Montana, County Marriages, 1865-1993
Name: Albert H Oakley
Gender: Male
Age: 30
Birth Date: abt 1886
Marriage Date: 11 Sep 1916
Marriage Place: Livingston, Park, Montana, USA
Father: William Oakley
Mother: Eunice Harper
Spouse: Ethel Roup
Film Number: 001940412

And 1920 and later:


William Oakley
in the 1920 United States Federal Census
Name: William Oakley
Age: 65
Birth Year: abt 1855
Birthplace: England
Home in 1920: Livingston Ward 1, Park, Montana
Street: So "M"
Residence Date: 1920
Race: White
Gender: Male
Immigration Year: 1876 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Relation to Head of House: Father
Marital Status: Widowed
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Native Tongue: English
Able to Speak English: Yes
Naturalization Status: Naturalized
Able to Read: Yes
Able to Write: Yes
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Albert H Oakley 35
Ethel Oakley 23
Thomas Oakley 8
Raymond Oakley 0
William Oakley 65


William Oakley
in the 1930 United States Federal Census
Name: William Oakley
Birth Year: abt 1853
Gender: Male
Race: White
Birthplace: England
Marital Status: Widowed
Relation to Head of House: Father-in-law
Home in 1930: Livingston, Park, Montana, USA
Map of Home: View Map
Street address: South L Street
Ward of City: First
Block: L.-P.
House Number: 211
Dwelling Number: 380
Family Number: 410
Age at First Marriage: 21
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace: England
Mother's Birthplace: England
Language Spoken: English
Immigration Year: 1880 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Naturalization: Naturalized
Able to Speak English: Yes
Household Members:
Name Age
Michael Garr 46
Lillian E Garr 42
Emaline Garr 11
William Oakley 77


Variations in year of immigration, but he doesn't look like the same William who married Georgina. Unless he'd forgotten he'd arrived in 1872!

However, you say his parents' names are correct on his marriage.

Is this the marriage that you mention?


William Oakley
in the Montana, County Marriages, 1865-1950
Name:
William Oakley
Gender:
Male
Race:
White
Marital Status:
Married
Age:
54
Birth Date:
1855
Birth Place:
Woodford, Essex, England
Marriage Date:
20 Nov 1909
Marriage Place:
Livingston, Park, Montana
Father:
John Henry Oakley
Mother:
Martha Hawkins
Spouse:
Emma Geyser
FHL Film Number:
1940411

If so this looks like him the following year, 1910, saying he's divorced and has a 21 year old son born Minnesota.


William Oakley
in the 1910 United States Federal CensusName:
William Oakley
[William Ostley]
Age in 1910:
55
Birth Year:
abt 1855
Birthplace:
England
Home in 1910:
Livingston Ward 1, Park, Montana
Street:
South N Street
House Number:
1164
Race:
White
Gender:
Male
Immigration Year:
1876
Relation to Head of House:
Head
Marital Status:
Divorced
Father's Birthplace:
England
Mother's Birthplace:
England
Occupation:
Watchman
Industry:
Railroad
Naturalization Status:
Alien
Household Members:

William Oakley 55
William Oakley Jr 21

ps In 1909 William Oakley married Emma Geyser née Armstrong.I know it is the same William because it gives his parents' name on the record.

Hi
Dora Lucy Oakley's parents were William Oakley and Georgina Rowland.These two married in Camberwell Surrey in June 1872 and the following month arrived in Quebec.Dora Lucy was born the following year 1873,
I'm in contact with Wendy Fisher who told me she had used info from a relative taken in 1970(prior to the internet).I have seen a copy of Dora Lucy's birth cert which gives parents as William and Georgina.They couldn't have drowned at sea or she never would have been born.
Regards
Wendy

But that tree also says that Dora's mother was named Emily.

It also shows a William on the 1871 census in Waterloo North, Ontario, with a wife Elizabeth and several children - when Dora's father hadn't even arrived in Canada - so not a trustworthy tree.

However, that doesn't mean they didn't die at sea - maybe that bit's correct!
It doesn't give a date for their supposed deaths, though.

As the son Henry wasn't with his parents in 1885, it does look as though they may have died before then..

A photo on an Ancestry tree of Dora Lucy (Oakley) Wimer says that her parents died at sea from England to Canada. The photo was supplied by Wendy Fisher.

fingers xxx :-)

Thank you so much Maddie and safc.You have given me lots to think about.
The Georgina born 1847 in Pimlico could be the one I'm looking for so I have bitten the bullet and sent for her marriage certificate to William Oakley.

Henry J Oakley born 1876 must have been Dora Lucy's younger brother?

I will let you know if you were right when the cert arrives.

Thanks again
Wendy

Name: Henry J Oakley
Age: 9
Birth Year: abt 1876
Birth Place: Canada
Residence Date: 1885
Residence Place: Lincoln, Adair, Iowa, USA
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry J Oakley 9

Dora Pearl Oakley

in the Iowa, Births and Christenings Index, 1800-1999
Iowa, Births and Christenings Index, 1800-1999 No Image
Text-only collection

Report issue

Name: Dora Pearl Oakley
Birth Date: 20 Oct 1913
Birth Place: Union Township, Guthrie County, Iowa, United States
Father: Henry James Oakley
Mother: Elizabeth Victory McCall
FHL Film Number: 1651851

census for the above hENRY

Name: Henry J Oakley
Age: 49
Birth Year: abt 1876
Birth Place: Canada
Residence Date: 1 Jan 1925
Residence Place: Union, Guthrie, Iowa, USA
Race: White
Gender: Male
Relation to Head: Head
Marital Status: Married
Spouse: Bessie V Oakley
Father: Oakley
Mother: Ellen Abbott ---------------------------- BESSIE'S MOTHER
Mother Birth Place: Iowa
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry J Oakley 49
Bessie V Oakley 48
Willard C Oakley 22
Dora P Oakley 11
Lela L Oakley 10
Cathryn L Oakley 7

1930
Name: Bessie V Oakley
Birth Year: abt 1877
Gender: Female
Race: White
Birthplace: Iowa
Marital Status: Married
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Homemaker?: Yes
Home in 1930: Audubon, Audubon, Iowa, USA
Map of Home: View Map
Street address: North Division
House Number: 205
Dwelling Number: 497
Family Number: 515
Age at First Marriage: 21
Attended School: No
Able to Read and Write: Yes
Father's Birthplace: Iowa
Mother's Birthplace: Missouri
Able to Speak English: Yes
Household Members:
Name Age
Henry J Oakley 55
Bessie V Oakley 53
Leona P Oakley 16
Lela L Oakley 14
Kathryn L Oakley 13
Leroy Jensen 24

????


Henry J. Oakley
mentioned in the record of Henry J. Oakley and Bessie V. Mccall
Name Henry J. Oakley
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 02 Jan 1898
Event Place Adair Co., Iowa, United States
Gender Male
Age 22
Marital Status S
Birth Year (Estimated) 1876
Father's Name Wm. Henry Oakley
Mother's Name Georgia Rowland
Spouse's Name Bessie V. Mccall
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 21
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1877
Spouse's Father's Name Joseph Mccall
Spouse's Mother's Name Ellen Abbott