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Flip, I didn't notice this yesterday, but on the 1851 census for Naomi and her family, there is also a daughter, Elizabeth. She's listed as 17 on the transcription- however, looking at the image, I think this should be 11.

This is a possible for the family in 1841:

1841 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Garthee, Upper, Llandrindod, Builth, Radnorshire, Wales

Edward Jones Male 35 1806 Radnorshire, Wales
Elizabeth Jones Female 30 1811 Radnorshire, Wales
Thomas Jones Male 8 1833 Radnorshire, Wales
Edward Jones Male 6 1835 Radnorshire, Wales
Elizabeth Jones Female 1 1840 Radnorshire, Wales

Think I agree with you AQ, the weren't married, and I think this birth is wrong! Bit like the birth for Naomi suggested by scaf, and on the familysearch tree, it's also wrong. It's like picking at the bits and finding holes in the previous research - or proving it is correct!

Thanks for your help (and everyone else for that matter) I always appreciate it.

I'm turning off too, got to walk the dog before going to bed, got an early start in the morning!

Flip- I'm turning off for the evening, but just wanted to mention a tree on Ancestry has this for George's birth:

MORGAN, GEORGE - (no mother's name recorded)
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in KNIGHTON Volume 11B Page 180

HOWEVER- this is incorrect as there is a baptism for this George and his mother was Elizabeth:

First name(s) George
Last name Morgan
Birth year 1869
Birth day -
Birth month -
Baptism year 1869
Baptism day 31
Baptism month Jan
Place Knighton
County Radnorshire
Father's first name(s) -
Mother's first name(s) Elizabeth

I think as they weren't married, the George Jones birth is more likely.

Oh you might be onto something there, right area and if parents (assuming Thomas Morgan was the father) were both working, (both as farm servants) could be they farmed him out. I'll check out freereg to see if I can find a baptism for him - but they don't appear to have been very religious to have baptised later children!

This child?

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hill Cottage, Llanbadarnfawr, Rhayader, Radnorshire, Wales

Thomas Mills Head - Male 60 1811 - Radnorshire, Wales
Mary Mills Wife - Female 48 1823 - Radnorshire, Wales
Fortune Mills Daughter - Female 8 1863 - Radnorshire, Wales
Emaline Price Nurse Child - Female 6 1865 - Breconshire, Wales
George Jones Nurse Child - Male 2 1869 - Cefnllys, Radnorshire, Wales
---------------------------------

Possibly this birth?

JONES, GEORGE (no mother's maiden name recorded)
GRO Reference: 1869 M Quarter in RHAYADER Volume 11B Page 193

Think you might be right with than one AustinQ - well found thanks. So where was George Morgan(s) or Jones born c1869 in 1871? Not with mum or dad as we now have them both in 1871.

When I started looking at Lucy Morgan's ancestry I assumed she was their eldest until I came across the 1881 census for her parents.

I think this is Thomas in 1871- on his marriage his address is given as Handdew (or Llanddew) Hall

1871 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Handewy (Llandewy) Hall, Llandewy, Knighton, Radnorshire, Wales

Edward Moesley Head - Male 45 1826 - Radnorshire, Wales
Richard Moesley Son - Male 19 1852 - Radnorshire, Wales
Edward Moesley Son - Male 17 1854 - Radnorshire, Wales
Martha Moesley Daughter - Female 14 1857 - Radnorshire, Wales
Mary Moesley Daughter - Female 12 1859 - Radnorshire, Wales
Amelia Moesley Daughter - Female 10 1861 - Radnorshire, Wales
John Moesley Son - Male 8 1863 - Radnorshire, Wales
Sarah Moesley Daughter - Female 3 1868 - Radnorshire, Wales
John Mills Servant - Male 23 1848 - Radnorshire, Wales
Sarah Lewis Servant - Female 20 1851 - Radnorshire, Wales
John Davies Servant - Male 20 1851 - Radnorshire, Wales
Thomas Morgans Servant - Male 26 1845 Farmer's servant. Llangunlo Radnorshire, Wales.

Hi Chris,

Think this is the same family as I found for 1861, and showing a brother for Thomas as George, with the mmn of Griffiths fitting in nicely with that being the maiden name for Susanna. Also the marriage you've posted seems to fit nicely.

Now trying to find where Thomas (or George b c1869, could be under Morgan or Griffiths) are on the 1871 census.

Looking at 1851, if Edward Births fit below...

Chris :)

1851 (Find My Past)
Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 41 1810 Miller Llangunllo, Radnorshire, Wales
Susanna Morgan Wife Married Female 27 1824 - Radnorshire, Wales
Thomas Morgan Son Unmarried Male 7 1844 Scholar Radnorshire, Wales
Susanna Morgan Daughter - Female 5 1846 Scholar Llangunllo, Radnorshire, Wales
Jane Morgan Daughter - Female 3 1848 - Llangunllo, Radnorshire, Wales
Edward Morgan - - Male 0 1851 (10mths) - Llangunllo, Radnorshire, Wales
William Williams Servant Unmarried Male 26 1825 General Servant London, Middlesex, England
Edward Thomas Lodger Widower Male 54 1797 Hacker Of A Day School Parish Of Bleddfa Lyonshall, Herefordshire, England
Mill House, Llangunllo Above, Knighton, Radnorshire,


MORGAN, EDWARD (GRAVENOR)
GRO Reference: 1850 M Quarter in KNIGHTON Volume 26 Page 239 Order

MORGAN, EDWARD (GRIFFITHS)
GRO Reference: 1850 J Quarter in KNIGHTON Volume 26 Page 284


Baptism
County Radnorshire
Place Llangynllo
Church name St Cynllo
Register type Parish Register
Register entry number 589
Baptism date 08 Jul 1850
Person forename Edward
Person sex M
Person abode Mill
Father forename Thomas
Father surname MORGAN
Father occupation Miller
Mother forename Susannah

https://www.freereg.org.uk/


(1851 Census taken 30th March, from google search)


Marriages Mar 1844 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------
GRIFFITHS Susanna Knighton 26 307
MORGANS Thos Knighton 26 307
MORGANS Thos Knighton 26 307

Thanks Dea, hadn't found that.

Can anyone find Thomas Morgan(s) on the 1871 census - if I've got the correct 1861 census, he wasn't with his parents but I can't find him. It would be before his marriage to Naomi, and I have her with her parents in 1871.

In 1881 they have a son George aged 12 with them (born Cefnllys, Radnorshire) I'm trying to establish whether he was Naomi's or Thomas's child - he isn't with his mother, could he be with Thomas, or elsewhere?

FreeReg Baptism entry Link for reporting error in transcription Field Value
County Radnorshire
Place (link for place information) Llanddewi Ystradenni
Church name St David
Register type Parish Register
Baptism date 03 May 1844
Person forename Thomas
Person sex M
Father forename Thomas
Father surname MORGAN
Mother forename Susanna
Witness
Witness
Register note
Transcriber notes

Dea x

Think I may have found Thomas Morgan in 1861,


Thomas Morgans
County Radnorshire
Event Type Census
Event Date 1861
Event Place St Harmon Clas And Rhiwrhiad, Radnorshire, Wales
Registration District Rhayader
Residence Note Glawrafon
Gender Male
Age 16
Marital Status Unmarried
Occupation Millers Son
Relationship to Head of Household Son
Birth Year (Estimated) 1845
Birthplace Llandewi, Radnorshire
Page Number 8
Registration Number RG09
Piece/Folio 4237 / 32
Affiliate Record Type Household

Thomas Morgans Head M 51 Llangunllo, Radnorshire
Susanna Morgans Wife F 39 Llandewi, Radnorshire
Thomas Morgans Son M 16 Llandewi, Radnorshire
Jane Morgans Daughter F 13 Llangunllo, Radnorshire
Edward Morgans Son M 10 Llangunllo, Radnorshire
Margaret Morgans Daughter F 7 Llangunllo, Radnorshire
Samuel Morgans Son M 1 St Harmon, Radnorshire
William Ralph Boarder M 22 St Harmon, Radnorshire

A tree on family search has Susanna's maiden name as Griffiths, sites a marriage 19/3/1844 - but I can't find any proof of this.

Not sure what you mean about Father above, he is as below on that 1871 Marriage image (Find My Past)

Chris :)

Edward Morgan (27 Bachelor occ. Miller) Father is Thomas Morgan (occ. Miller)
Naomi Jones (21 Spinster) Father is Edward Jones (occ. Quarryman)
(witnesses, W.G. Millichip, Margaret Morgan?)


http://newspapers.library.wales/search/advanced

(have been looking round on above, newspapers usually turn some snippet up!, but not seeing a lot, addresses etc.)

Looking at the age gap between daughter Elizabeth and son John, I wonder if it is a second marriage for Edward or if The younger Elizabeth is with her mother Elizabeth under the Mum's maiden surname in 1841.

Also, I can't find them 1841 to see if there were earlier children or whether Elizabeth (c1834) was the eldest? Possibly as her mother was probably c21 at her birth, but there could have been earlier children.

Hi Nyx, thanks for this for James but I don't know if any of these births are relevant as the civil registrations were not compulsory into 1875 so not sure if any of the children were officially registered? Not enough evidence with the same mmn to confirm any of them were registered, was hoping to find out more from parish records (if available).

Thanks safc, that's the marriage I found on familysearch, but it didn't have fathers details. I think it is the right one, but back to needle in haystack searching for a Thomas Morgan, fathers name Thomas. At least it saves me buying the MC!

Edit Thomas jnr (if you can call him that when born c1845) was also a Miller.

Radnorshire Marriages and Banns Transcription
Print transcription View image
First name(s) Naomi
Last name Jones
Age 21
Birth year 1850
Year 1871
Event Marriage
Marriage year 1871
Marriage date 13 Nov 1871
Residence -
Father's first name(s) Edward
Father's last name Jones
Place Llanbadarn Fawr
County Radnorshire
Country Wales
Spouse's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's last name Morgan
Spouse's age 27
Spouse's residence -
Spouse's father's first name(s) Thomas
Spouse's father's last name Morgan
Record set Radnorshire Marriages And Banns
Category Birth, Marriage, Death & Parish Records
Subcategory Parish Marriages
Collections from Wales, Great Britain

Welsh Archive Services / Gwasanaethau Archifau Cymru

© Findmypast

thomas morgans farther is a miller

The 1851 census gives earlier children:


Name Naomi Jones
Event Type Census
Event Date 1851
Event Place Coedglason, Radnorshire, Wales
Registration District Rhayader
Gender Female
Age 1
Relationship to Head of Household Daughter
Birth Year (Estimated) 1850
Birthplace Nantmel, Radnorshire
Page Number 5
Registration Number HO107
Piece/Folio 2494 / 169
Affiliate Record Type Household

Edward Jones Head M 48 Llanbadarn Fawr, Radnorshire
Elizabeth Jones Wife F 38 Cwmddower, Radnorshire
Elizabeth Jones Daughter F 17 Llandrindod, Radnorshire
John Jones Son M 7 Llandrindod, Radnorshire
Mary Jones Daughter F 6 Cefnllys, Radnorshire
Margret Jones Daughter F 3 Cefnllys, Radnorshire
Naomi Jones Daughter F 1 Nantmel, Radnorshire

So not sure as I can't find births for the children with the same mmn.

1861 gives brother James?

1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Baynbwrbld, Coedlasson, Rhayader, Radnorshire, Wales

Edward Jones Head Married Male 56 1805 Stone Quarryman Radnorshire, Wales Transcription
Elizabeth Jones Wife Married Female 49 1812 - Radnorshire, Wales Transcription
Margaret Jones Daughter - Female 13 1848 - Radnorshire, Wales Transcription
Naomi Jones Daughter - Female 11 1850 - Nantmel, Radnorshire, Wales Transcription
James Jones Son - Male 8 1853 - Nantmel, Radnorshire, Wales
John Evans Nursechild - Male 6 1855 - Nantmel, Radnorshire, Wales Transcription


JONES, JAMES - Order
GRO Reference: 1852 J Quarter in BUILTH Volume 11B Page 99 Order
JONES, JAMES EVANS Order

GRO Reference: 1852 S Quarter in BUILTH Volume 11B Page 90 Order
JONES, JAMES MEREDITH Order

GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in THE BUILTH UNION Volume 11B Page 90 Order
JONES, JAMES POWELL Order

GRO Reference: 1854 D Quarter in THE BUILTH UNION Volume 11B Page 85