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Thank you i didnt have the marriage record in speaking with my grandfather he also lived on belvior street and the rest of the information does make sense

"I can see a Heaton's Yard (not Healons) and a Shaw's Yard (off Boy's Well Lane),"

The next generation of the family moved to boyswell lane so this fits perfectly

Do you have this Ben?

This is John's first marriage - Abram is not a million miles from Scholes.


Marriage: 25 Dec 1879 St John the Evangelist, Abram, Lancashire, England
John Waterworth - 20, Collier, Bachelor, Plank Lane in Abram
Elizabeth Hill - (X), 25, Spinster, Plank Lane Abram
Groom's Father: Ralph Waterworth, Collier
Bride's Father: Francis Rothwell, Boatman
Witness: John Baldwin, (X); Elizabeth Ann Baldwin, (X)

(Note that her father's name is Rothwell)

His first wife's death
Burial: 7 Feb 1883 St John the Evangelist, Abram, Lancashire, England
Elizabeth Waterworth -
Age: 34
Abode: Plank Lane
Buried by: Hewett Linton Vicar


John and his first wife had 2 children. She presumably died in childbirth given the dates.

Baptism: 12 Feb 1882 St John the Evangelist, Abram, Lancashire, England
Ralph Waterworth - [Child] of John Waterworth & Elizabeth
Abode: Plank Lane
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: H Linton Vicar
(Ralph died in 1883)

Baptism: 7 Feb 1883 St John the Evangelist, Abram, Lancashire, England
Francis Waterworth - [Child] of John Waterworth & Elizabeth
Abode: Plank Lane
Occupation: Collier
Baptised by: H Linton Vicar
(It looks as though Francis died at birth or soon after)

How very sad.

I think this is John and his new wife in 1891

Name:
John Waterworth
Gender: Male
Age: 34
Relationship :Head
Birth Year: 1857
Spouse: Elizabeth Waterworth
Child: John Waterworth 2
Edward Waterworth 1
Birth Place: Ince, Lancashire, England

There are a family by the name of Boardman lodging with them.

Could this possibly be relevant? Living with a family of Watterworths.



1851 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Court Roper Street, Toxteth Park Extra Parochial, West Derby, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Henry Walterworth Head Married Male 30 1821 Labourer Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Elizabeth Walterworth Wife Married Female 25 1826 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
>>>Grace Parry Visitor Married Female 28 1823 Seamstress Rochdale, Lancashire, England


and now in 1861.



1861 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
25, Dwerryhouse Street, Toxteth Park, West Derby, Lancashire, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
>>Grace Parry Head Widow Female 38 1823 Boarding House Keeper Rochdale, Yorkshire, England
Transcription
John Parry Son - Male 8 1853 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Thomas Parry Son - Male 2 1859 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
>>Elizabeth Parry Daughter - Female 4 1857 - Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Jon Jones Boarder Married Male 22 1839 Labourer Wales
Transcription
Frederick Hopkins Boarder ... Male 23 1838 Carpenter Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Fitz Fitzgerald Lodger Widower Male 58 1803 Carpenter Wales
Transcription
Caroline Price Lodger Unmarried Female 21 1840 Dress Maker Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Emma Oliver Visitor Unmarried Female 22 1839 Servant Of All Work Liverpool, Lancashire, England


EDIT No sorry, this is a red herring. I have found son John Edward's baptism but his father is Thomas, a labourer. Same address as the 1861 census.


Name: John Edward Parry
Baptism Date: 24 Nov 1852
Baptism Place: Toxteth, St James, Lancashire, England
Father: Thomas Parry
Mother: Grace Parry

That proposed nephew of Elizabeth - Edward Mulvey (whose birth I found) looks to have died soon after the census of 1881

Mulvey Edward 2 Mths 5 Shaws Yd. Scholes 27-May 1881 C 142 * R C

Any idea if this is Elizabeth's grave information:

Waterworth
Waterworth Elizabeth 63 yrs Union Workhouse 22-Jul 1920 L 498 * C of E

(From that Wiganworld site)

Added:
And this could be John (but Elizabeth and John are quite usual names)

Waterworth John 75 yrs Billinge Union Infirmary 25-Jul 1934 [ 30, Belvoir St. ] R 577 C of E

This gives Wigan street names in 1890

http://wiganworld.co.uk/stuff/streets1890.php?opt=streets1890

(Not yet worked out if it relates to deaths registered)

I can see a Heaton's Yard (not Healons) and a Shaw's Yard (off Boy's Well Lane),

http://maps.nls.uk/view/101103176#zoom=4&lat=2511&lon=6141&layers=BT
Unfortunately most small streets not named, but Birket Bank is there.:

Living in Wigan in 1881 is this family, plus an Elizabeth Parry:

At 5 Shaws Yard
Francis Mulvey 28 coal drawer Ireland
Ellen Mulvey 26 Liverpool
Catherine Mulvey 4
Edward Mulvey 1 month Wigan
Elizabeth Parry 28 boarder unmarried Liverpool

Ellen Mulvey could be Ellen Parry from this possible marriage
Marriages Dec 1873
Mulvey Francis Wigan 8c 168
Parry Ellen Wigan 8c 168

and the son Edward Mulvey looks to be this birth from the GRO
MULVEY, EDWARD PARREY
GRO Reference: 1881 J Quarter in WIGAN Volume 08C Page 31

So we have an Elizabeth Parry born in Liverpool, living in Wigan in 1881 with her sister, still unmarried, and looking more likely as the correct Elizabeth Parry, even with the wrong age.

This Edward is a blacksmith, and might be that proposed baptism family that you do not like:

1861
Elizabeth Parry
Age: 9 Estimated birth year: 1852 Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Edward Parry Mother's name: Ann Parry
Where born: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Civil Parish: Toxteth Park Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas County/Island: Lancashire
Registration district: West Derby Sub-registration district: Toxteth Park
ED, institution, or vessel: 20 Household schedule number: 91 Piece: 2701 Folio: 11 Page Number: 17
At 7 Dawson Terrace
Edward Parry 42 Blacksmith Flintshire
Ann Parry 43 Flintshire
Mary Parry 19 All children born Liverpool
xxxxElizabeth Parry 9
Ellen Parry 7
Catherine Parry 4
Edward Parry 1
Class: RG 9; Piece: 2701; Folio: 11; Page: 17; GSU roll: 543015

In fact, on the register, she claims to be 30, so admits to being a year older than him, and just makes her mark.
(Witnesses Samuel and Mary Gregory, who also make their mark)

(Added: Also, looked again at it, 55 Birkett Bank and 3 Heaton's Yard, Scholefield Lane)

She might be trying to appear younger than she really was, because she does not want to be a lot older than him. Brides do lie.

its definitely 1857-58 as she was 29 on marriage certificate

i think the tipping point is that John is listed as having been a widower, he married another elizabeth

Elizabeth appears to have different birth years in 1891, 1901 and 1911.

There is this to make her rather older still, Elizabeth Parry born April 28th 1852 to Edward and Anne Parry of Eldon Street, baptised April 24th 1853. He is a smith.

Sorry, well past bedtime, someone else might take up the search.

Sorry, my fault, her Father was Edward, yes.

they stayed in wigan; John waterworth worked as collier and it was her father that worked as a blacksmith

Do you know if this is her death, or did they move from Wigan?

Elizabeth A Waterworth
BIRTH: abt 1856
DEATH: Jun 1935 - Wigan, Lancashire, England

Do you think the year of birth is between 1855 and 1856 - is it consistent in the censuses that you have found her in?

There is this baptism in 1855, but John is an iron moulder not a blacksmith

Elizabeth Parry Baptism Date: 17 Jun 1855
Baptism Place: Liverpool, St Nicholas, Lancashire, England
Father: John Parry Mother: Mary Ann Parry

thats correct

Just checking, this is her marriage?

Marriages Sep 1887
PARRY Elizabeth Wigan 8c 86
WATERWORTH John Wigan 8c 86

I am looking for more information about Elizabeth Parry
Liverpool, Lancashire, England 1856

Her father was Edward PArry

lived at healons yard scholes lane, wigan at the time of her marriage, her father deceased at the time but had worked as a blacksmith to
John Waterworth, 55 brikett road, wigan, he was a collier, father ralph waterworth

that is all i know but would love to know more