Find Ancestors

Have removed AG - it's a birth record of course. Also removed the reference to the name in my post of the 1891 census. I'm sitting here falling to sleep over the computer, should take myself off to bed!

You're right about the death, of course, GG.

Helen doesn't show up in 1911 on SP at all.
I've tried all sorts of different ways of searching for the record you posted.
Just as Helen, no surname, or just as Ellen, no surname, or just as McAlpine, no first name.

You would need to use Scotland's People and look at some records. Am wondering about this -

Helen Netherley McAlpine born 1890
Helen and Robert marry in 1908

IF this 1891 census is correct - Helen (Ellen on census - interchangeable in Scotland)) and Cecilia would be sisters. Maybe Cecilia came to live and look after Helen's family for some reason and that is why she appears on the 1911 census with Robert and children

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
High Street, Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation
Francis McAlpine Head Married Male 43 1848 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Shoemaker
Joan McAlpine Wife Married Female 43 1848 Stirlingshire, Scotland -
Cecilia McAlpine Daughter Unmarried Female 20 1871 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Paper Mill Worker
Archibald McAlpine Son - Male 17 1874 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Currier
Francis McAlpine Son - Male 15 1876 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Fireman
Agnes McAlpine Daughter - Female 10 1881 Linlithgow, Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Scholar
George McAlpine Son - Male 6 1885 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland Scholar
Mary McAlpine Daughter - Female 3 1888 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland -
Ellen McAlpine Daughter - Female 1 1890 Linlithgowshire (West Lothian), Scotland -

Can't be her death aged 65 in 1985 AG? not if she married in 1908

More likely the 1919 Helen Netherley McAlpine birth in Linlithgow

Helen's death - she must have married again after her marriage to Robert;

MCALPINE (also listed as MCMEECHAN and STIRLING )
HELEN NETHERLEY
65
1985
700/ 15
Boness and Carriden


Her 2nd marriage:

MCMEECHAN
HELEN M N
STIRLING
ROBERT BURNETT
1946
668/ 48
Linlithgow


EDIT:

NO - IGNORE!
Wrong Helen. (Looks like a daughter of the Helen who married Robert McMeechan - see later posts.)

Cecilia & Robert in 1911 census, with sons Robert and James:

MCMEECHAN
CECILIA
1911
F
40
668/ 4/ 8
Linlithgow
West Lothian

MCMEECHAN
ROBERT
1911
M
4
668/ 4/ 8
Linlithgow
West Lothian


MCMEECHAN
ROBERT
1911
M
32
668/ 4/ 8
Linlithgow
West Lothian


MCMEECHAN
JAMES
1911
M
3
668/ 4/ 8
Linlithgow
West Lothian


No sign of Helen Netherley McMeechan in 1911 in Scotland.

Francis and Phyllis's marriage cert would clarify things.

Cecilia's death:

MCMEECHAN
CECILIA
83
1953
668/ 81
Linlithgow

Her birth:

MCALPINE
CECILIA
F
1870
668/ 160
Linlithgow


Her first marriage:

MCALPINE CECILIA
AINSLIE DAVID
1893
668/ 39
Linlithgow


David's death:

AINSLIE DAVID
31
1900
668/ 25
Linlithgow

I can't find the birth of any other Francis McAlpine McMeechan .

I wonder if "George" on the CWGC website is a mistake? Or maybe Robert was known as George?

It seems a big coincidence if there were two children born on the same day with the same unusual combination of names.

Did you find the name Cecilia on Francis's birth cert?


This is the marriage of the couple you think are his parents:


MCMEECHAN
ROBERT
MCALPINE (also listed as AINSLIE )
CECILIA
1904
685/4 226
St Giles


But GG has posted Robert and Helen's marriage in 1908.

Adam's death, just for the record:

MCMEECHAN
ADAM FRANCIS CU[MMOCK]
91
MCALPINE
2003
777/ 110
Linlithgow

As per Scotland's People - Francis Culvertson McAlpine McMeechan born 5.10pm 31 July 1913 at Linlithgowbridge son of

Robert Downie McMeechan and Helen Netherley McMeechan maiden surname McALpine who married 17 July 1908 Linlithgow

-----------------------------

County/city/minor records:
Surname Forename Spouse Surname Spouse Forename Year Ref RD Name Image View
MCMEECHAN
ROBERT D
MCALPINE
HELEN NETHERLY
1908
668/ 27
Linlithgow

EDIT - Robert 24 s/o George and Agnes nee Downie
Helen 18 d/o Francis and Joan nee Kerr

Thank you for that my Francis parents were Robert And Cecilia so it's not mine

Thank you for sorting it for me

Interesting that Phyllis's 1939 record is closed on Ancestry but not on FMP .

Would think with the unusual name it's unlikely to be anyone other than the same man

cwgc site free to search

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/2763956/mcmeechan,-francis-mcalpine/

Last name
Rank
Service Number
First names
or
initials
Date of death
Age
Cemetery/memorial
Grave Reference/Panel Number
Regiment
Country of service

McMEECHAN
Sapper
14634726
FRANCIS MCALPINE
Tuesday, August 29, 1944
Age 31
KING'S LYNN CEMETERY
Sec. Q. Grave 549.
VIEW RECORD
Royal Engineers
United Kingdom

--------------------------------
Sapper
MCMEECHAN, FRANCIS MCALPINE

Service Number 14634726

Died 29/08/1944

Aged 31

22 Bomb Disposal Coy.
Royal Engineers

Son of Mr. and Mrs. George McMeechan; husband of Phyllis May McMeechan, of Walworth, London.

INSCRIPTION

KILLED WHILST SERVING WITH 22 BOMB DISPOSAL COY. EVER REMEMBERED BY HIS WIFE, CHILDREN RAYMOND, GWENDOLINE

Sapper
McMEECHAN, FRANCIS MCALPINE

Service Number 14634726

Died 29/08/1944

Aged 31

22 Bomb Disposal Coy.
Royal Engineers

Son of Mr. and Mrs. George McMeechan; husband of Phyllis May McMeechan, of Walworth, London.

Surname First name(s) Mother District Vol Page
Births Sep 1938 (>99%)
Barry Brenda M D'Urber Hammersmith 1a 293
Bolter Pamela Y Hatch Hammersmith 1a 293
Harmon Rose M White Hammersmith 1a 293
McMeechan Gwendoline E Kinson Hammersmith 1a 293

----------------------
Surname First name(s) Spouse District Vol Page
Marriages Mar 1938 (>99%)
Baldwin Joyce Wootton Lambeth 1d 321
Kinson Phyllis M McMeechan Lambeth 1d 321
McMeechan Francis Kinson Lambeth 1d 321
Wootton Arthur J F Baldwin Lambeth 1d 321

McMechan Household (4 People)
81 Portland Road , Kensington, London, England

FIRST NAME(S) LAST NAME(S) DOB SEX OCCUPATION MARITAL STATUS SCHEDULE SCHEDULE SUB NUMBER
Francis McMechan 31 Jul 1913 Male Restaurant Doorma On Dol Married 50 1
Phyllis Baker (Mcmeechan) 20 Mar 1918 Female Unpaid Domestic Duties Married 50 2
Sorry, this record is officially closed. Check if you can open a closed record.
Gwendoline Haynes (Mcmeechan) 07 Aug 1938 Female Child Under School Age Single 50 4

Phyllis' name becomes BORG nor Baker - date in margin 4.8.64 (just date record amended not necessarily date of event

Gwendoline becomes Hayes not Haynes - date in margin 1965

Just the one closed record as indicated on the transcription

for our reference:


Francis McMeechan
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Francis McMeechan
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 31 Jul 1913
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 81
Residence Place: Kensington, London, England
Occupation: Restaurant Doorma
Schedule Number: 50
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: AMRN
Registration district: 2. 2. B 4.
Household Members:
Name
Francis McMeechan
Gwendoline Hayes

Gwendoline was born 7 Aug 1838, and later married a Hayes.
There are also two closed records.


Births Sep 1938 (>99%)
McMeechan Gwendoline E (mms Kinson ) Hammersmith 1a 293


Marriages Mar 1938 (>99%)
Kinson Phyllis M McMeechan Lambeth 1d 321
McMeechan Francis Kinson Lambeth 1d 321

I have the birth of Francis C McAlpine McMeechan 31 July 1913 Linlithgow Scotland I've traced his Siblings one with the name Adam Francis born 1911 which I get up instead of Francis. I've found a 1939 census in Kensington which the date of birth is right, he is down as Married and their is a child Gwendoline born 1938 ? with the names Hayes wrote on it so she possibly married ......Hayes

I've also found a death for a sapper Francis McAlpine McMeechan 1944 aged 31 which fits
Also 1939 Directory has Francis McAlpine McMeechan and under his name is Phillis Mary McMeechan

So what I would like is your opinions on if this is my Francis pitty nothing says where he was born

Thank you