Find Ancestors

Connected thread:

https://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/867497

Just wanted to update this thread to advise that the DNA match has now brought in another Schatt relative. I am the granddaughter of David, have connected with the granddaughter of Philip and the granddaughter of Annie. Annie and her husband Max, unfortunately died in a concentration camp.

There is a 4th DNA match connected to all of us but we haven't figured out where the connection comes in.

I am still on the hunt for descendants of DAvid.

Good news in one respect. You know you share the same grt grandfather. Does she know any of David’s descendants? If they are willing to do a DNA test, it might give a closer match.

BINGO!!! I just heard from the woman who I match on AncestryDNA with the last name Schatt. She's confirmed her grandfather was Ronnie Scott's brother so I think it's pretty much confirmed that David Scott was in my grandfather.

Thank you all again for responding to my post. I'll keep researching but I think finally we have an answer to the mystery.

Again you all amaze me. The details on Doris my grandmother arriving in the US are all accurate and she, her sister Kay (Daisy), sister Lily who married Cornelius O'Callaghan and their Mother Lily all lived in San Francisco until their deaths. Sister Lily died at the age of 43. I've been to the Cemetery where they are all buried.

Doris lived in Toronto for a period of time and a year or two after my Dad and Mom married she then moved to SF to live with her sister Kay.(Daisy). All that we know and have documented.

Austin thank you for the detail on Gertrude, I checked my tree and you are right she is the wife of Viv (Walter) Hegan and her maiden name was Zwinger (I remember my Dad telling me she wore the pants in the family and Dad didn't particularly like her). I had forgotten about her :-)

The big gap is the connection to the name Scott. We know that Doris got pregnant with Brian while Percival was at sea hence the divorce. Dad was sent to live with his grandparents (Walter/Lily) and his sister Joan (biological daughter of Doris and Percival) was sent to live with the Greenstreet family. Joan died at the age of 8, the year that Doris and Percival divorced I believe.

Percival remarried in 1929 and I actually connected with his son from that second marriage, Richard. He confirmed the "scandal" but didn't know of the details other than the pregnancy was the cause of the divorce but that his Dad did agree to give the baby the name Greenstreet.

Dad had a vague memory of meeting David Scott, Uncle of Ronnie but always maintained he didn't know the circumstances of his Mother's name being Scott. He changed his name from Greenstreet to Scott and I have the Deed Poll regarding the name change but can't find it at the moment.

As adults we asked Doris to share what happened but she would always tell us it wasn't our business and there are no other siblings of Doris or her sisters.

I am waiting for the woman with the surname Schatt to respond to see if she is in fact connected to Ronnie or David Scott. To me if she confirms that she is, it would explain the close DNA connection and answer the questions we've had for years.

Very possible Doris and David didn't marry and she just took on his last name.

Again thank you all for your input, it's fascinating what you've been able to find out.

this is her 1953 arrival:

Doris Scott
in the U.S., Border Crossings from Canada to U.S., 1895-1960
Name: Doris Scott
Gender: Female
Age: 52
Marital Status: Divorced
Record Type: Manifests
Birth Date: abt 1901
Birth Place: Liverpool, Eng.
Arrival date: May 1953
Port of Arrival: Seattle, Washington, USA
Residence Place: Toronto, Ontario, Canada


Her son Brian had taken the name Scott - he's mentioned in the Naturalisation paperwork with his correct year of birth, and again here:

Son, Brian Scott, RCAF station, Gimli, Manitoba, Canada.
She was going to her sister Kay Hegan, 805 Lake Street, San Francisco.
Last permanent residence: 10 Lincoln Avenue, Toronto.

???

Doris Scott
in the Global, Find A Grave Index for Burials at Sea and other Select Burial Locations, 1300s-Current
Name: Doris Scott
Birth Date: 1900
Death Date: 1972
Cemetery: Westbury Cemetery
Burial or Cremation Place: Bridgetown, Saint Michael, Barbados
Has Bio?: N

This is Doris, formerly Greenstreet, nee Hegan:

Doris Scott
in the California, Federal Naturalization Records, 1843-1999
Name: Doris Scott
Petition Age: 53
Record Type: Petition
Birth Date: 24 Aug 1900
Birth Place: Liverpool, England
Petition Date: 1953
Petition Place: California, USA
Petition Number: 137029

Fair complexion, blue eyes, grey hair, 5ft 2ins, weight 130 lbs.

The dates and places re her marriage/divorce to Percival are listed - but no mention of another husband.

Mentions her "one child", Brian Scott [who was born Greenstreet ].
Had her daughter died?


Doris Scott
in the U.S. Naturalization Record Indexes, 1791-1992 (Indexed in World Archives Project)
Name: Doris Scott
Birth Date: 24 Aug 1900
Age at event: 58
Court District: California
Date of Action: 1 May 1959


Apparently she arrived in the US for permanent residence on May 4, 1953.

There are various travel records - for instance this one - she's travelling alone:

Doris Scott
in the New York, Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
Name: Doris Scott
Arrival date: 18 Apr 1948
Birth Date: abt 1901
Birth Location: England
Birth Location Other: Liverpool, England
Age: 47
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Parthia

Last UK address: Wallasey.

Hello Karen,

Firstly- Gertrude E Hegan on the 1939 register was the wife of Doris's Brother, Walter Vivian Hegan (they married in 1936 Cheshire).

I'm not sure if the David Scott on the 1939 register (son of Morris & Rebecca) is connected. I'm just wondering what made you think it was that particular David Scott in the first place? Was there talk about him being from a musical background? Did the Schatt woman descend/ relate to this David? Or are there any other details that might pinpoint the correct man?

I ask, because there are many David Scotts around that age that could fit (many on the 1939 register- single and married).

Doris may have just listed herself as married to avoid it looking like she had children out of wedlock. It doesn't necessarily mean that she was married.

Did Doris's children later take on the Scott name? If so, who they list as their father when they married?

Have you tried contacting descendants of Doris siblings? Do they have any stories re Doris and Mr Scott?

Again I'm amazed by what you all can find in your research. I think AustinQ is on to something and it now appears that in 1939 Doris was married again her last name Scott....maiden name Hegan, Walter as her Father and so in 1939 she shows as one of the household along with Walter and David also shows married in 1939 but no wife.

Argyll I'm not sure about your info based on what AustinQ has found but I really do thank you all for doing some serious digging.

I may be trying to make things work but if David Scott (Schatt) was my Dad's biological father that would certainly explain why on AncestryDNA I have a DNA match to a woman with the last name Schatt.

Is there any way to try to find a marriage certificate for Doris and David, sometime between 1928 and 1939?

You all are amazing!!

??? Maybe.

(West Ham district includes Wanstead, where David seems to be in 1939, per record posted by AQ)

Marriages Sep 1932 (>99%)
Byford Edith L Scott W.Ham 4a 752
Scott David Byford W.Ham 4a 752



BYFORD, EDITH LAURA mms HAYWARD
GRO Reference: 1912 D Quarter in WEST HAM Volume 04A Page 706


Four daughters, born 1932 - 1939, in West Ham and Essex SW.


Edith, married but no husband present, in 1939. Either three or four children with her (hard to know which lines are supposed to be blacked out for closed records).


Edith L Scott
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Edith L Scott
Gender: Female
Residence Year: 1939
Address: Broomhill
Residence Place: Samford, Suffolk, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic Duties
Schedule Number: 241
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: TXKO
Household Members:
Name
Edith L Scott
This record is officially closed.
This record is officially closed. (This is the child born 1838 - can just see enough of the name)
L?? Scott (first name actually begins with M - the child born 1939)


??
Edith Laura Scott
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1916-2007
Name: Edith Laura Scott
Death Age: 87
Birth Date: 22 Aug 1912
Registration Date: Mar 2000
Registration district: Colwyn
Inferred County: Clwyd
Register Number: 105A
District and Subdistrict: 8021

Doris with family in 1939:

Name: Doris Scott
Gender: Female
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: ? Aug 1900
Residence Year: 1939
Address: ??lvermere Rowson St
Residence Place: Wallasey, Cheshire, England
Occupation: Clerk
Registration district: Wallasey 452 A/1
Household Members:
Name
Gertrude E Hegan 3 May 1901 married
Walter Hegan 28 Jan 1866 married
Doris Scott
Closed Record

In case it is related:

School admissions record gives birth date of David:

Name: David Schott
Gender: Male
Age: 6
Birth Date: 21 Feb 1897<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Admission Date: 24 Aug 1903
School: Chicksand Street School
Father: Morris Schott
Notes: Chicksand Street School (0441) opened in 1875. Closed in 1924
----------------------------------------

This is the same David on the 1939 register- listed as married but no wife with him:

Name: David Scott
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Married
Birth Date: 21 Feb 1897
Residence Year: 1939
Residence Place: 30 Cedars Avenue Wanstead and Woodford, Essex,
Occupation: Musician
-----------------------------------------------

Other outline entries on the NA give the name of the co-respondent. If Scott or Schatt isn't in the title, he wouldn't have been served 'papers'.
It might be possible that he was mentioned in the court proceedings as an example of their incompatibility.

You can't see details online.
You would have to order a copy, for a fee.
Click on the link I posted, then on "Request a copy" for details of how to go about it.

Not that I can see from the link but I"m not really sure how to navigate on the link other than I see

J 77/2527/8673
Description:
Divorce Court File: 8673. Appellant: Percival Greenstreet. Respondent: Doris Greenstreet. Type: Husband's petition for divorce [hd].

So does Doris & Percival's divorce paperwork not mention David?

Yes I have the divorce details for Doris and Percival and that post under Ancestry is me, what I"m trying to get details on is David Scott and if anyone is related to him, if they are aware of a relationship between David and my grandmother Doris. At some point after her divorce she took the name Scott but there is no record of when, who or why. Interesting that my AncestryDNA matches me closely to a woman with the last name Schatt.

David's partner's name given in another thread by Kelly, on Ancestry:

https://tinyurl.com/ybbf8ehv


Her divorce (1928) at National Archives site:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C8051934

That divorcing couple appear to be Ronnie's parents:

He was born Ronald Schatt in the east end of London, into a family of Russian Jewish descent on his father's side, and Portuguese antecedents on his mother's. His father, Joseph Schatt, was a dance band saxophonist who worked under the professional name of Jock Scott. He separated from his wife when Ronnie was a young child, and played little part in his son's upbringing, although their paths did cross again -- sometimes uneasily -- when Ronnie became a musician.
https://www.geni.com/people/Ronnie-Scott/6000000019325531066