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Elizabeth Ann Rodda is witness to Sarah's marriage but I still can't work out how Sarah can be an Aunt to James Henry....

Sarah had a brother who died when little plus Arabella (accounted for) and Elizabeth Ann........

Maybe it's just coincidental and it IS the wrong Sarah (the cert does not say Sarah Jane and it has her deceased father as a Farmer).

Marriage cert for Elizabeth Ann has deceased father as Miner....which is correct (Sarah could have made an error...)

It's been a while since I've bought certificates. I'll go for and update you all upon the results.

Thank you all again.

Phil

To be more certain you will probably have to buy the marriage certificate for the two girls to check name of father and see if he is noted as deceased, or not.
The certificates may also give names of witnesses that are family members, but it does come at a cost, so the decision is yours.
You could also look for a death to see if there is a date of birth noted, but there again you would need the birth certificates of both children to find out their exact date of births.
Unfortunately, either way, you will probably have to buy a couple of certificates to be sure.

Thank you for all your help. Are we plumping fir the Elizabeth who married Trevarthen and the Sarah who married Weeks?

According to the census, all Rosamund's siblings were sisters - and so far I can't find their births to find out mms:


Roseman Butt
in the 1841 England Census
Name: Roseman Butt
Age: 10
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Devon, England
Civil Parish: Doddiscombsleigh
Hundred: Exminster
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: St Thomas
Sub-registration district: Christow
Neighbors:
Piece: 219
Book: 19
Folio: 5
Page Number: 5
Household Members:
Name Age
John Butt 40
Mosey Butt 40
Roseman Butt 10
Mary Butt 7
Sarah Butt 4
Susanna Butt 2

All born Devon.



Rosamond Butt
in the 1851 England Census
Name: Rosamond Butt
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1831
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: John Butt
Mother's name: Rosamond Butt
Gender: Female
Where born: Doddiscombsleigh, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Doddiscombsleigh
Phillimore Ecclesiastical Parish Maps:
View related Ecclesiastical Parish
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: St Thomas
Sub-registration district: St Thomas
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 6
Piece: 1867
Folio: 444
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
John Butt 50
Rosamond Butt 50
Rosamond Butt 20
Emma Butt 12
Elizabeth Butt 9

All born Doddiscombsleigh


EDIT:

Oh yes, mms is Coldridge:

BUTT, EMMA mms COLDRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1839 M Quarter in ST THOMAS UNION DEVON Volume 10 Page 217


BUTT, ELIZABETH mms COLDRIDGE
GRO Reference: 1841 S Quarter in ST THOMAS UNION Volume 10 Page 195


There don't appear to be any brothers, at least not from 1837 onwards, so to find the uncle we'll have to find who the sisters married.

Just for our reference -

Arabella (aka Isabella) was already living with John Wallser in 1871, pre-marriage:


Isabella Wallser
in the 1871 England Census
Name: Isabella Wallser
Age: 18
Estimated birth year: abt 1853
Relation: Lodger
Gender: Female
Where born: Chudleigh, Devon, England
Civil Parish: Dodbrooke
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Registration district: Kingsbridge
Sub-registration district: Kingsbridge
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Household schedule number: 39
Piece: 2103
Folio: 47
Page Number: 8
Household Members:
Name Age
William Earle 49
John Murphy 60
John Wallser 21 - hawker, born Stepney
Isabella Wallser 18 - hawker
Ellen North 50
Sarah Malone 23
Ellen Brance 19
Dominic Tisgania 77
Paul Mistrea 43
John Desola 18
James Harding 30

Yes. There were other children - just have to work out which uncle!! Rosamond's siblings were living in mid-Devon so must be one of the Rodda clan....?

So the one she deserted was Arabella in July 1862 in the Workhouse and sent to her Uncle's in liskeard Aug 1862 at his request.

Maryb

I have seen that Rosamond Rodda was in Truro on 10 May 1862 as she was charged with deserting her child (just the one..?) - one month hard labour.

Just a thought -

I wonder if James Henry could be a son of Elizabeth Ann?

If the 1881 census for Elizabeth, with the mystery brother William, is the correct one, she was living in Helston and didn't marry until 1887.


EDIT:
Aaaagh!
but on the other hand, if the Elizabeth in the 1891 census (housekeeper, born Camborne) is the correct one, then she's not the one who married Frederick Trevarthen in 1887 !


There are far too many Elizabeth Ann Roddas born approx. 1857..

For instance, there's this one, travelling alone, domestic servant, intending "protracted sojourn":

Eliz A Rodda
in the New York, Passenger and Crew Lists (including Castle Garden and Ellis Island), 1820-1957
Name: Eliz A Rodda
Arrival Date: 15 Jun 1892
Birth Date: abt 1856
Age: 36
Gender: Female
Ethnicity/ Nationality: English
Port of Departure: Liverpool, England; Queenstown, Ireland
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Majestic

But maybe that's the return journey of this one, occupation Matron -
EDIT: no probably not the same one, unless she'd upped her occupation :

Elizabeth Ann Rodda
in the UK, Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
Name: Elizabeth Ann Rodda
Arrival Age: 36
Birth Date: abt 1856
Port of Departure: New York, New York, United States
Arrival Date: 24 Apr 1892
Port of Arrival: Liverpool, England
Ship Name: Servia
Official Number: 84172

I think I need to lie down in a darkened room.


ADDED:

And I've just noticed, both journeys already posted by Catherine.

??? Maybe ????

Sarah Rodda
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Marriage Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Rodda
Registration Year: 1882
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Redruth
Inferred County: Cornwall
Volume: 5c
Page: 349
Records on Page:
Name
Sarah Rodda
William Henry Weekes


Sarah Weeks
in the 1891 England Census
Name: Sarah Weeks
Gender: Female
Age: 28
Relationship: Wife
Birth Year: 1863
Spouse: William Henry Weeks
Birth Place: Crowan, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: Camborne
Residence Place: Camborne, Cornwall, England
Sub registration district: Camborne
ED, Institution or Vessel: 6
Neighbors:
Piece: 1850
Folio: 135
Household Members:
Name Age
William Henry Weeks 39
Sarah Weeks 28



Sail Weeks [ looks like Sair on image ]
in the 1911 England Census
Name: Sail Weeks
Age in 1911: 50
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation to Head: Aunt
Gender: Female
Birth Place: Crowan, Cornwall
Civil Parish: Illogan
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Street address: Pool Carn Brea
Marital status: Married
Years Married: 33
Estimated Marriage Year: 1878
Occupation: Dealer
Registration district: Redruth
Registration District Number: 299
Sub-registration district: Illogan
ED, institution, or vessel: 10
Household schedule number: 185
Piece: 13994
Household Members:
Name Age
James Henry Rodda 27 - born Crowan
Edith Ann Rodda 29
Fredrick James Rodda 4
William Henry Weeks 60
Sail Weeks 50


Birth of the nephew James Henry ??

RODDA, JAMES HENRY -
GRO Reference: 1884 J Quarter in HELSTON Volume 05C Page 207


James's widow in 1939:

Edith A Rodda
in the 1939 England and Wales Register
Name: Edith A Rodda
Gender: Female
Marital status: Widowed
Birth Date: 8 Apr 1882
Residence Year: 1939
Address: 8
Residence Place: Camborne-Redruth, Cornwall, England
Occupation: Unpaid Domestic D??
Schedule Number: 54
Sub Schedule Number: 1
Enumeration District: WACQ
Registration district: 299-1
Household Members:
Name
Edith A Rodda


James's death ??

Deaths Sep 1930 (>99%)
Rodda James H 46 Redruth 5c 209


Marriages Dec 1905 (>99%)
MATTHEWS Edith Redruth 5c 425
RODDA James Henry Redruth 5c 425


So far, I don't see James between birth and marriage.


There were only two Sarah Roddas born in Redruth district 1860-63 - yours, and the one who went to the USA.

Gradually.....we are inching our way. But it is odd how Rosamond/Rosamund/Rose/Rosie goes missing.

Where were they between the post workhouse and Elizabeth Ann's marriage?

With Elizabeth Ann marrying locally, it makes you think that they all stayed together? 1871 census is the key.

Yes, you're right this is the family in 1880

Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
William Rodda Self Male 39 England
Rosina Rodda Wife Female 39 England
Sarah J Rodda Daughter Female 18 England
William H Rodda Son Male 16 England
Bertha Rodda Daughter Female 6 Pennsylvania, United States
Helln Rodda Daughter Female 4 Pennsylvania, United States


but at least you can eliminate this one from your research.

I'm afraid I feel that Sarah Dehaven is the Sarah Jane who went to USA in 1869 with parents William and Rosina :

Sarah Jane Rodda
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Birth Index, 1837-1915
Name: Sarah Jane Rodda
Registration Year: 1862
Registration Quarter: Jul-Aug-Sep
Registration district: Redruth
Inferred County: Cornwall
Volume: 5c
Page: 271


This is her family in 1861 - interestingly the name Eustice crops up here:

William Rodda
in the 1861 England Census
Name: William Rodda
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: 1841
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Rosina Rodda
Gender: Male
Where born: Crowan, Cornwall, England
Civil Parish: Camborne
Ecclesiastical parish: Camborne St Martin
Town: Camborne
County/Island: Cornwall
Country: England
Registration district: Redruth
Sub-registration district: Camborne
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors:
Household schedule number: 152
Piece: 1583
Folio: 95
Page Number: 24
Household Members:
Name Age
William Rodda 20
Rosina Rodda 20
Mary Ann Rodda 2
John Eustice 18
James Eustice 15


Marriages Sep 1858 (>99%)
Eustice Rosina Redruth 5c 418
Rodda William Redruth 5c 418


Their son's birth (as on Ellis Island record) :

RODDA, WILLIAM HENRY mms EUSTICE
GRO Reference: 1865 M Quarter in REDRUTH Volume 05C Page 329


RODDA, SARAH JANE mms EUSTICE
GRO Reference: 1862 S Quarter in REDRUTH Volume 05C Page 271

Haven't found Lucy's birth yet.

1900 census states that James and Sarah were married for 18 years so c.1882

This is James in 1881
Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Vesley Dehaven Self M 47 Pennsylvania, United States
Elizabeth Dehaven Wife F 43 Pennsylvania, United States
James Dehaven Son M 18 Pennsylvania, United States (Engineer)
Sarah Dehaven Daughter F 16 Pennsylvania, United States
Harry Dehaven Son M 9 Pennsylvania, United States
Edward Dehaven Son M 6 Pennsylvania, United States
Albert Dehaven Son M 3 Pennsylvania, United States
Laura Dehaven Daughter F 0 Pennsylvania, United States

.....so they married in 1882/83

Catherine. I'm not so sure because there were 2 Sarah Jane Roddas born at the same time. In one of the original posts, does it not give different parents?

just for a further bit of info on family of Sarah Jane

Her husband looks to have remarried although can't see a marriage:-

1910
James Dehaven Head M 48 Pennsylvania (Engineer - Locomotive)
Lida Dehaven Wife F 43 Illinois
John Trink Stepson M 14 Pennsylvania
Helen Trink Stepdaughter F 12 Pennsylvania
Rictor Trink Stepson M 10 Pennsylvania
Marion Dehaven Daughter F 2 Pennsylvania
Ada Dehaven Daughter F 26 Pennsylvania


and again:-

Name James M. De Haven
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 10 Sep 1913
Event Place Altoona, Blair, Pennsylvania, United States
Event Place Altoona, Blair, Pennsylvania, United States
Gender Male
Age 52
Birth Year (Estimated) 1861
Father's Name Wesley
Mother's Name Elizabeth
Married before:- Twice
Date of Death of previous spouse:- 1911

Spouse's Name Elsie E. Harpster
Spouse's Gender Female
Spouse's Age 44
Spouse's Birth Year (Estimated) 1869
Spouse's Father's Name Maxwell
Spouse's Mother's Name Anna
...................................

Looks to be his death

James McClelland DeHaven
Find A Grave Index
Name James McClelland DeHaven
Event Type Burial
Event Date 1919
Event Place Altoona, Blair, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Photograph Included N
Birth Date 07 Aug 1861
Death Date 03 Mar 1919
Affiliate Record Identifier 8039172
Cemetery Fairview Cemetery
...............................

His family in 1920

Household Role Sex Age Birthplace
Elsie E Dehaven Head Female 50 Pennsylvania (widowed)
Ada M Dehaven Daughter Female 36 Pennsylvania
Marian E Dehaven Daughter Female 12 Pennsylvania
James C Smith Nephew Male 15 Pennsylvania

Thank you for this fantastic research. I really do appreciate it.

Going back to 1881 census - I wasn't aware Elizabeth had a brother William H.

Elizabeth, Sarah Jane and mother Rosamond had been in the workhouse 2 years earlier.

Only William H. Rodda I can finx for 1864ish is with mmn of Eustice.

Nothing in 1871 census.

Phillip,
The Sarah Jane I found married to James DeHaven in America looks to be your Sarah Jane Rodda.

Here is her burial record and Maiden name is Rodda

Sarah J. Rodda DeHaven
Find A Grave Index
Name Sarah J. Rodda DeHaven

Maiden Name Rodda

Event Type Burial
Event Date 1904
Event Place Altoona, Blair, Pennsylvania, United States of America
Photograph Included N
Birth Date 04 Aug 1862
Death Date 11 Nov 1904
Affiliate Record Identifier 8039180
Cemetery Fairview Cemetery

...........so Sarah Jane has also been found.

??

Elizabeth Ann Trevarthen
in the England & Scotland, Select Cemetery Registers, 1800-2016
Name: Elizabeth Ann Trevarthen
Age: 45
Birth Date: abt 1856
Death Date: abt 1901
Burial Date: 14 Oct 1901
Burial Place: Ealing, Greater London, England
Cemetery: Acton Cemetery
Grave number: F43/i
Interment Number: 2616


Elizabeth A Trevarthen
in the England & Wales, Civil Registration Death Index, 1837-1915
Name: Elizabeth A Trevarthen
Estimated birth year: abt 1856
Registration Year: 1901
Registration Quarter: Oct-Nov-Dec
Age at Death: 45
Registration district: Brentford
Inferred County: Middlesex
Volume: 3a
Page: 38